Is It Ethical?

[Moishebatchy]

If asked you should tell them the amount you are charging.

Disagree.

It's one thing to argue whether the person should know or not IF you are making money. But even if they do, it's none of their business how much. Do you ask your grocer how much he's making on that bag of sugar you're buying?

[HelpMe]

But IYO, one needn't affirmatively say so outright?

I do deals with members all the time. Some members there is no commission involved at all. Some deals commission is involved and disclosed. Other deals commission is in involved and not disclosed. I am always up front when asked and give a straight answer. I believe I am being ethical, honest and it has worked for many years.

[HelpMe]

But even if they do, it's none of their business how much. Do you ask your grocer how much he's making on that bag of sugar you're buying?

If the sugar was 1k/pound then yes I would ask. Would you buy a car without trying to find what the dealers cost was?

[meshugener]

Whom are you guys trying to please here? Your hearts? Your ego?
I simply don't get it.

[HelpMe]

I simply don't get it.

Some day you might understand young grasshopper.

[Ergel]

Some day you might understand young grasshopper.

I doubt it.
There is a din of V'asisa hayashar v i'hatov. A person has achiyuv to be honest and ethical. If you don't understand that I would recommend people to stay as far away from you as possible.

[meshugener]

I'm too greedy to get it.

[HelpMe]

There is a din of V'asisa hayashar v i'hatov. A person has achiyuv to be honest and ethical. If you don't understand that I would recommend people to stay as far away from you as possible.

Anyone want to help this poor soul out with a translation?

[HelpMe]

I'm too greedy to get it.

Hopefully that will pass some day.

[AJK]

Anyone want to help this poor soul out with a translation?

"A person has to do the thing that is straight (ethical?) and good."

[AJK]

So, if I'm understanding the consensus:

- If person B's role was not made clear (friend/gratis vs. broker), as long as Person A has not been misled to believe B's role is that of friend, Person B can charge commission even without disclosing.

- If asked by Person A, B should disclose that (not specifically how much) he's making a commission.

Anyone disagree?

[AJK]

Another hypothetical:

Person A knows absolutely nothing with regard to market rates for miles.

Is there an ethical floor under which Person B should not buy A's miles due to his lack of familiarity?

If so, how much? Why?

[Ergel]

So, if I'm understanding the consensus:

- If person B's role was not made clear (friend/gratis vs. broker), as long as Person A has not been misled to believe B's role is that of friend, Person B can charge commission even without disclosing.

- If asked by Person A, B should disclose that (not specifically how much) he's making a commission.

Anyone disagree?

Definitely agree with part b
A I think depends on how it's formulated. If B is selling A's miles (and not buying A's miles and reselling) then I don't see how B could not disclose he is taking something.

[HelpMe]

Another hypothetical:

Person A knows absolutely nothing with regard to market rates for miles.

Is there an ethical floor under which Person B should not buy A's miles due to his lack of familiarity?

If so, how much? Why?

I had a feeling this one was coming. Now we are getting into the area if one is taking advantage of another person.

[Moishebatchy]

Another hypothetical:

Person A knows absolutely nothing with regard to market rates for miles.

Is there an ethical floor under which Person B should not buy A's miles due to his lack of familiarity?

If so, how much? Why?

Yes, but it's hard to say exactly what the amount is.

I'm sure we've all heard the stories of the shysters who get people signed up for the Amex Plat (netting them a referral bonus), give them a paltry 1 cpp for the ensuing MR, and keep the $200 airline credits. And I'm sure we can all agree that is highly unethical, right?

So we know there is a line - the problem is, where do we draw it?

[AJK]

As devil's advocate, why would even that be "highly unethical?"

These people created value where none existed before.

[Name Changed]

As devil's advocate, why would even that be "highly unethical?"

These people created value where none existed before.

Its not that value is created, there always was that potential value, but it was just not know to them...

If like the typical Arab Shuck, where they try to sell you something worth pennies for a high cost. (this is just the opposite) but they are fooling you to believe that giving you its true value.

(if they are offering you a service, thats a whole different story)

So, if I'm understanding the consensus:

- If person B's role was not made clear (friend/gratis vs. broker), as long as Person A has not been misled to believe B's role is that of friend, Person B can charge commission even without disclosing.

- If asked by Person A, B should disclose that (not specifically how much) he's making a commission.

Anyone disagree?

I actually agree with this.

[AJK]

Its not that value is created, there always was that potential value, but it was just not know to them...

If like the typical Arab Shuck, where they try to sell you something worth pennies for a high cost. (this is just the opposite) but they are fooling you to believe that giving you its true value.

(if they are offering you a service, thats a whole different story)

Isn't that (one of) the definitions of value?

If you didn't know that you could turn your garden gnome's into gold, and I came and did it for you in exchange for half the price of the gold, that's not creating value?

[Saver2000]

Isn't that (one of) the definitions of value?

If you didn't know that you could turn your garden gnome's into gold, and I came and did it for you in exchange for half the price of the gold, that's not creating value?

+1

[shmuelb]

I think it is a shaila of ona'a or mekach ta'os. If you are paying 1/6 less than market value without telling this uninformed person, you were oiver ona'a and lechaoira also oiver lifnei iver.

The latter would also apply with the first q of selling someone else's miles. The difference between 1.9 and 2.0 is less than 1/6 so I think it would not be ona'a. This is not based on how much you are personally getting for the miles, rather market value It may be that points/miles have no defineable market value, like karka.