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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556227 times)

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #460 on: October 09, 2012, 09:36:54 AM »
Going back to the previous issue, if Amex is insuring it like a wager, not for actual cost of refurbishment, it seems that you can take the money from them. Regarding the manufacturer replacing the item, what do they say about it?

About ethics and halacha, you can use the paradigm of din and lifnim mishuras hadin. Both of these are sourced in the Torah.

Here is a good link aish

An example of "ethics" unaligned with Torah, ... I do not recall, I think examples are brought by the Dubner Maggid in Mishpatim, need to research ...

The Sages are more relayers of G-d's wisdom than his representatives. The can not condone or forgive on His behalf.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline dans fan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #461 on: October 09, 2012, 10:23:06 PM »
I think it is a shaila of ona'a or mekach ta'os. If you are paying 1/6 less than market value without telling this uninformed person, you were oiver ona'a and lechaoira also oiver lifnei iver.

The latter would also apply with the first q of selling someone else's miles. The difference between 1.9 and 2.0 is less than 1/6 so I think it would not be ona'a. This is not based on how much you are personally getting for the miles, rather market value It may be that points/miles have no defineable market value, like karka.
are your thoughts based on something you know or something you dont know. to me it sounds like the later

The Sages are more relayers of G-d's wisdom than his representatives. The can not condone or forgive on His behalf.
true
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 10:32:54 PM by dans fan »

Offline dans fan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #462 on: October 09, 2012, 10:25:36 PM »
So, if I'm understanding the consensus:

- If person B's role was not made clear (friend/gratis vs. broker), as long as Person A has not been misled to believe B's role is that of friend, Person B can charge commission even without disclosing.

- If asked by Person A, B should disclose that (not specifically how much) he's making a commission.

Anyone disagree?
i didnt read your case carefully but there is somthing called leskuni shedartich velo lavasi which may apply in your case and therefore you may have to return the diff. its very common with real estate that the buyer would agree to pay more than what the sellers lowest price and the agent tells the seller i will get the buyer to pay more if we split the gains (instesd of taking the reg agents percent on the diff)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 10:29:25 PM by dans fan »

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #463 on: October 10, 2012, 08:43:05 AM »
are your thoughts based on something you know or something you dont know. to me it sounds like the later

IDK, one of those.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline myb821

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #464 on: October 17, 2012, 04:20:21 PM »
my wife purchased three pairs of shoes from amazon using the 20% code just over a month ago. She wanted to return two pairs and i forgot to return them untill a few days after the thirty days allowed. I contacted amex return protection and opened a claim one pair was 32.99 and one was 62.62 i got two emails from them cause i guess they opened up a separate case for each pair. one said they closed the case and credited 62.62 the other said the closed the case and credited 94.61!!! I have no idea how this happened i gave the agent all the right numbers. Do i have an obligation to call amex and correct them

Offline ahecht37

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #465 on: October 17, 2012, 04:22:04 PM »
my wife purchased three pairs of shoes from amazon using the 20% code just over a month ago. She wanted to return two pairs and i forgot to return them untill a few days after the thirty days allowed. I contacted amex return protection and opened a claim one pair was 32.99 and one was 62.62 i got two emails from them cause i guess they opened up a separate case for each pair. one said they closed the case and credited 62.62 the other said the closed the case and credited 94.61!!! I have no idea how this happened i gave the agent all the right numbers. Do i have an obligation to call amex and correct them
halachicly no

Offline eis517

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #466 on: October 17, 2012, 04:27:50 PM »
halachicly no

This thread isn't titles "is it halachik". It is about ethics, and I think ethically you should call Amex and let them know they made a mistake. They could very well just let him/her keep the money.

Offline bubbles

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Is It Ethical?
« Reply #467 on: October 17, 2012, 04:31:22 PM »
Similar story happened to me. I called back twice and they said they would be debiting my account the difference but that never happened :)  at that point I felt I met whatever moral obligation was there

Offline eis517

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #468 on: October 17, 2012, 04:46:48 PM »
Similar story happened to me. I called back twice and they said they would be debiting my account the difference but that never happened :)  at that point I felt I met whatever moral obligation was there
+1

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #469 on: October 18, 2012, 07:44:34 AM »
Similar story happened to me. I called back twice and they said they would be debiting my account the difference but that never happened :)  at that point I felt I met whatever moral obligation was there
Interesting question, if you are morally required to return the money that you received in error, at what point do you say "I did enough, now I can keep it"?
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #470 on: October 18, 2012, 07:46:05 AM »
Interesting question, if you are morally required to return the money that you received in error, at what point do you say "I did enough, now I can keep it"?
Well in Halachah there is sometimes a concept יהא מונח עד שיבוא אליהו

Offline shmuelb

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #471 on: October 18, 2012, 07:49:16 AM »
If in Halacha you can keep it, I assume it is not a chiuv in the guf hamamon. But to say "I tried calling but they were closed" obviously will not assuage one's conscious.
siyag lachachma :-)

Offline meshugener

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #472 on: October 18, 2012, 08:03:50 AM »
I hate this thread.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #473 on: October 18, 2012, 08:11:42 AM »
So open a competing thread "Is it unethical enough" :P

Offline SamDaMan

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #474 on: October 18, 2012, 10:41:52 AM »
So open a competing thread "Is it unethical enough" :P
+1
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Offline chaimmayer

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #475 on: October 18, 2012, 11:07:15 AM »
I hate this thread.
Do you have a specific issue or just prefer not to have to deal with your conscience :P

Offline HelpMe

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #476 on: October 18, 2012, 11:42:22 AM »
Do you have a specific issue or just prefer not to have to deal with your conscience :P
How can you deal with something you don't have.  ;D
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Offline meshugener

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #477 on: October 18, 2012, 02:10:48 PM »
Do you have a specific issue or just prefer not to have to deal with your conscience :P
the entire concept of ethics irritates me.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #478 on: October 18, 2012, 03:01:23 PM »
the entire concept of ethics irritates me.
We feel your pain.

Offline ReadsTheT&C

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #479 on: October 23, 2012, 12:54:45 AM »
getting mail and realizing they didn't cancel the stamp.  can you take the stamp off and reuse it?