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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556631 times)

Offline dans fan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #540 on: November 29, 2012, 10:02:16 PM »
+1
Similar thing happened to us (We didn't get a Lands End order so they sent out a new one. A day later we got the first one) we called and they told us to keep both.
its ok to call if the first time you didnt steal but the op stole by getting a refund based on a lie (albeit unintentional)

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #541 on: December 04, 2012, 11:17:32 AM »
To buy a knockoff?
(where there are copyright infringement issues)
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #542 on: December 04, 2012, 11:19:36 AM »
To buy a knockoff?
(where there are copyright infringement issues)

That's a tough one.

That is, if you're solely asking on ethical, and not legal. Legality should be pretty clear.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #543 on: December 04, 2012, 11:23:33 AM »
That's a tough one.

That is, if you're solely asking on ethical, and not legal. Legality should be pretty clear.
Is it prohibited legally to buy (not just sell)?
(left out a question mark and poorly formulated it as a question, oops)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 12:06:34 PM by Ergel »
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline RT

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #544 on: December 04, 2012, 12:03:34 PM »
Formula companies send out rebate checks if you subscribe to their mailing list (similac, enfamil, gerber) I once used 4 rebate checks to buy baby formula because there was a good sale on the formula. Then I found it cheaper somewhere else and returned the formula. the store (Target) gave me the amount of the rebate checks in cash because the formula company still pays them for the rebate. I have tons more rebate checks from other companies. All I'll need to do is buy formula with the rebate check and return it to receive the rebate back in cash.  The first time I did it it was unintentional. It feels very unethical to do this as I would be "stealing" from the formula company...

Offline RT

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #545 on: December 04, 2012, 12:05:22 PM »
It's prohibited legally to buy (not just sell)?
(left out a question mark, oops)
Dina d'malchuscha dina, I think it is unethical and assur if its illegal.

Offline AJK

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #546 on: December 04, 2012, 12:20:30 PM »
Is it prohibited legally to buy (not just sell)?
(left out a question mark and poorly formulated it as a question, oops)

Honestly, I'm not as familiar with IP law as I'd like to be.

But from what I can recall, it's not illegal to buy in the vast majority of countries, only to sell.

As I said, it's a tough ethical question...
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #547 on: December 04, 2012, 12:21:43 PM »
Honestly, I'm not as familiar with IP law as I'd like to be.

But from what I can recall, it's not illegal to buy in the vast majority of countries, only to sell.

As I said, it's a tough ethical question...
When you said legally it should be clear that meant it's ok?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Online moko

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #548 on: December 04, 2012, 12:56:24 PM »
Formula companies send out rebate checks if you subscribe to their mailing list (similac, enfamil, gerber) I once used 4 rebate checks to buy baby formula because there was a good sale on the formula. Then I found it cheaper somewhere else and returned the formula. the store (Target) gave me the amount of the rebate checks in cash because the formula company still pays them for the rebate. I have tons more rebate checks from other companies. All I'll need to do is buy formula with the rebate check and return it to receive the rebate back in cash.  The first time I did it it was unintentional. It feels very unethical to do this as I would be "stealing" from the formula company...
what about those who just deposit them in their accts (yes it works) :o

Offline AJK

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Re: Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #549 on: December 04, 2012, 01:27:16 PM »
When you said legally it should be clear that meant it's ok?

Say wha?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #550 on: December 04, 2012, 01:29:13 PM »
Say wha?

That's a tough one.

That is, if you're solely asking on ethical, and not legal. Legality should be pretty clear.

When you said legality should be pretty clear you meant that it is legal?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #551 on: December 04, 2012, 02:45:11 PM »


Ah, like I said:

from what I can recall, it's not illegal to buy in the vast majority of countries, only to sell.

ETA:

Seems I was right: http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline RT

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #552 on: December 04, 2012, 03:40:48 PM »
what about those who just deposit them in their accts (yes it works) :o
You deposit them in your bank account as a check?!?

Offline Ergel

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Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #553 on: December 04, 2012, 07:31:43 PM »
Ah, like I said:

ETA:

Seems I was right: http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/


Quote
So why is buying counterfeit goods generally considered O.K. by the law? First, Ms. Scafidi said, the notion of arresting or fining tourists for buying those goods (say on Canal Street) is not an attractive proposition for the tourism industry.

Second, it’s difficult to distinguish between consumers who know what they are doing when they are buying counterfeits and those who don’t and think they are buying the real thing. “It’s hard to prove people knew it was a counterfeit,” said Chris Sprigman, an intellectual property law professor at the University of Virginia School of Law who has written on copyright issues for the Freakonomics blog.
Strange svaros, particularly the second one. Because we can't distinguish therefore allow it even intentionally?
And the first one, does it hurt tourism in France? And we have plenty of laws which aren't enforced.
There has got to be a better hesber
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline henche

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #554 on: January 08, 2013, 04:32:47 PM »
January term is 3 weeks long. The textbook costs $215.

The book store allows returns for only 3 days, so can't buy and return. But.... I paid with Amex. oh.

It gets better. The book store gives you a rebate at the end of the year because it is a cooperative, and you get some percentage of your spending back depending on their profits. Typically about 8%. So free book for the term, and free $17.

Is it ethical?

Offline myb821

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #555 on: January 08, 2013, 04:38:42 PM »
January term is 3 weeks long. The textbook costs $215.

The book store allows returns for only 3 days, so can't buy and return. But.... I paid with Amex. oh.

It gets better. The book store gives you a rebate at the end of the year because it is a cooperative, and you get some percentage of your spending back depending on their profits. Typically about 8%. So free book for the term, and free $17.

Is it ethical?
amex will only take like new products as part of their return protection

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #556 on: January 08, 2013, 04:39:21 PM »
So he can be very careful...
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline henche

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #557 on: January 08, 2013, 04:39:35 PM »
no prob. it's a textbook. you read from it, that's all.

Offline Moishebatchy

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #558 on: January 08, 2013, 05:07:42 PM »
January term is 3 weeks long. The textbook costs $215.

The book store allows returns for only 3 days, so can't buy and return. But.... I paid with Amex. oh.

It gets better. The book store gives you a rebate at the end of the year because it is a cooperative, and you get some percentage of your spending back depending on their profits. Typically about 8%. So free book for the term, and free $17.

Is it ethical?

http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/5907

Quote
Items excluded for return to Starwood AMEX, but not excluded by Chase Sapphire:
-Watches
-Refurbished items
-Cellular phones
-Compact discs, digital video discs, video console games.
-Maps
-Books
-Tickets of any kind.

Offline henche

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #559 on: January 08, 2013, 05:26:39 PM »
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/5907

Oh. thanks.
The exclusions are here https://www.americanexpress.com/us/content/pdf/card-benefits/return-protection/Return_Protection.pdf
and are:
"Items not eligible for a refund are: animals and living plants; one-of-a-kind items (including antiques, artwork, and furs); limited edition items; going-out-of-business sale items; consumable or perishable items with limited life spans (such as perfume, light bulbs, non-rechargeable batteries); jewelry (including, but not limited to, loose gems, precious stones, metals, and pearls); watches; services and additional costs (such as installation charges, warranties, shipping, or memberships); rare and precious coins; used, altered, rebuilt and refurbished items; custom-built items, cellular phones; pagers; compact discs; digital video discs; mini discs; audiotapes; videotapes; computer software; firmware (such as console games, Nintendo, etc.); maps; books of any kind; health care items (such as blood pressure machines and diabetes equipment); formal wear; tickets of any kind; motorized vehicles (such as cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, or airplanes) and their parts; land and buildings; firearms; ammunition; negotiable instruments (such as promissory notes, stamps and travelers checks); cash and its equivalent; and items permanently affixed to home, office, vehicles, etc., (such as garage door openers, car alarms)."

See, and I was thinking that if I accidentally damaged it, I could file a purchase protection claim.