Topic Wiki

This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556467 times)

Offline az

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 321
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #620 on: January 12, 2013, 07:29:26 PM »
I said not believing in something does not make a person "bad" or unethical. To clarify for you if a person is unethical it makes them a "bad" person by my standards/views.
that is your opinion, and you did say  "bad or unethical"

Offline az

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 321
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #621 on: January 12, 2013, 07:34:32 PM »
and once more , what is "bad" if ethics are just a persons opinion?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #622 on: January 12, 2013, 07:59:09 PM »
and once more , what is "bad" if ethics are just a persons opinion?
Whether a person is "bad" or "good" is just an opinion also.

It all comes back to is something ethical and most here are basing it on religion and I fully understand why. Maybe change the thread title to “Does your religion consider this ethical”.  :)
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline az

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 321
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #623 on: January 12, 2013, 08:57:27 PM »
Whether a person is "bad" or "good" is just an opinion also.

It all comes back to is something ethical and most here are basing it on religion and I fully understand why. Maybe change the thread title to “Does your religion consider this ethical”.  :)
Unless you believe  in G D,
So what is this thread discussing?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 09:01:08 PM by az »

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #624 on: January 12, 2013, 09:09:02 PM »
Unless you believe  in G D,
So what is this thread discussing?
That's the whole point I am making. Everyone does not believe in God. They still can decide if something is ethical or not. This thread is about ethics not religion. They are not one in the same for everyone.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #625 on: January 12, 2013, 09:25:09 PM »
That's the whole point I am making. Everyone does not believe in God. They still can decide if something is ethical or not. This thread is about ethics not religion. They are not one in the same for everyone.

Just gonna jump in here:

What objective criteria does one (you?) use to decide whether something is ethical or not?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline dans fan

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1295
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #626 on: January 12, 2013, 11:07:47 PM »
Or is it like I got a envelope in the mail with $ in it and I have no idea why he sent it to me
in both cases its stealing (relegion and law). not a ethical question
Why can't I assume he sent me a gift?

the same reason why when someone leaves a bike unlocked you dont assume its a gift for anyone to take
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 11:11:31 PM by dans fan »

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #627 on: January 13, 2013, 07:36:00 AM »
Just gonna jump in here:

What objective criteria does one (you?) use to decide whether something is ethical or not?
It would be based on ones own values. I will throw this out as just an example "mercy killings". I am sure this can be viewed either way.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #628 on: January 13, 2013, 11:23:59 AM »
It would be based on ones own values. I will throw this out as just an example "mercy killings". I am sure this can be viewed either way.

So you base your own ethics and morals on what you believe to be ethical and moral?

To take your example: One day you may think mercy killings are "ethical," so that means they're ethical. But the next day, they're unethical," so that means they're unethical.

But which is it? Ethical or unethical?
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline kracked dude

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 1888
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Re: Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #629 on: January 13, 2013, 12:18:23 PM »
the same reason why when someone leaves a bike unlocked you dont assume its a gift for anyone to take
I don't think you can compare the case of the bike to my case of the Ami magazine or finding a envelope of cash addressed to you in your mailbox. I'm talking about when someone knowingly and willingly puts something on my doorstep addressed to me. Why should I not assume its a gift to me? When I got married and I got gifts in the mail should I have assumed it was sent to me by mistake?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 12:40:28 PM by kracked dude »

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #630 on: January 13, 2013, 12:36:09 PM »
So you base your own ethics and morals on what you believe to be ethical and moral?
Yes but that does not mean that I always follow them.

To take your example: One day you may think mercy killings are "ethical," so that means they're ethical. But the next day, they're unethical," so that means they're unethical.
Short answer, yes. I would hope ones views on critical issues does not change by the day but can change over a lifetime.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #631 on: January 13, 2013, 12:40:20 PM »
So forget mercy killings. So then what is to stop someone (or you) from telling themselves simple murder is ethical?

People have tremendous powers of rationalization.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #632 on: January 13, 2013, 12:49:34 PM »
So forget mercy killings. So then what is to stop someone (or you) from telling themselves simple murder is ethical?
Nothing.

People have tremendous powers of rationalization.
Correct and we have seen this in play with using religion to justify murder.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #633 on: January 13, 2013, 05:22:11 PM »
So then what is "moral" or "ethical" in your eyes, is meaningless, because it is in a state of constant flux, amorphous, and fluid.

What is one day, isn't the next, and isn't one day is the next.

Seems especially ripe for manipulation.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #634 on: January 13, 2013, 05:28:44 PM »
So then what is "moral" or "ethical" in your eyes, is meaningless, because it is in a state of constant flux, amorphous, and fluid.

What is one day, isn't the next, and isn't one day is the next.

Seems especially ripe for manipulation.
So what you're saying is that, if you don't have an objective benchmark to decide what is or isn't ethical then 'ethics' becomes a subjective thing up for personal discretion. now of course atheists will agree with that definition, while religious people will tell you that there IS an objective benchmark by which to decide. However being that no 2 religions will agree on that benchmark (and even within religions you will find many differences) hence the question 'is it ethical' remains subjective and up for discussion.

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #635 on: January 13, 2013, 05:31:35 PM »
So then what is "moral" or "ethical" in your eyes, is meaningless, because it is in a state of constant flux, amorphous, and fluid.

What is one day, isn't the next, and isn't one day is the next.

Seems especially ripe for manipulation.
I would hope ones views on critical issues does not change by the day but can change over a lifetime.
A lot of things are ripe for manipulation. Religions have been manipulated for centuries.
In your profession there is a code of ethics? Haven’t some manipulated these at different times?
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline az

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 321
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #636 on: January 13, 2013, 06:26:48 PM »
why not do some deep internal calculations,if one doesn't have a strong foundation before discussing these type of things,
then one can end up being defined by others and not by what that person believes is "ethical".

and anyway, whats the point of discussing  ethics outside of religion?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #637 on: January 13, 2013, 06:47:13 PM »
and anyway, whats the point of discussing  ethics outside of religion?
Because for some the two have nothing to do with each other. Can a non-religious person discuss ethics?
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Achas Veachas

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 4399
  • Total likes: 114
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
    • Torah && Tech
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #638 on: January 13, 2013, 06:56:29 PM »
...and a round and around we go... ::)

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #639 on: January 13, 2013, 06:58:09 PM »
...and a round and around we go... ::)
That is what happens when religion is involved.  ;)
"Elvis Has Left The Building"