Topic Wiki

This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556391 times)

Offline meshugener

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 6887
  • Total likes: 62
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: DDF
  • Programs: Amex Platinum, Chase Freedom 10X10 Exclusives, Avis Presidents Club, National Executive, Hertz 5 Star, Hilton Gold, Accor Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #660 on: January 14, 2013, 06:41:24 PM »
That doesn't mean Judaism changed, it just means some Jews have decided to stop following Judaism fully.
FTFY
In your view.
There are others out there.
Love me or hate me. I still love you.

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #661 on: January 14, 2013, 06:43:19 PM »
Be careful, don't get drawn in.  :P

Okay, fine... If nobody else is gonna get back to business, I will. ;)


Someone goes and books lots of hotel rooms/award tickets (let's say for argument's sake, he is Plat so he gets free redeposits) for prime dates. He then offers to people that he will "sell" them the availability - i.e. in return for a fee, he will cancel his reservation so that the "buyer" can snap up the newly-available date. Is it ethical?

My 2 cents: no, it's not. It's like domain name squatting. If he booked those dates planning to actually use them, and is now considering the hassle of altering his plans in return for some compensation, then maybe it's okay; but to book for the express purpose of "reselling" the availability (remember, we're not talking about the actual stay/flight - just the ability to book it with your own points) is just plain evil.

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #662 on: January 14, 2013, 06:46:49 PM »
Someone goes and books lots of hotel rooms/award tickets (let's say for argument's sake, he is Plat so he gets free redeposits) for prime dates. He then offers to people that he will "sell" them the availability - i.e. in return for a fee, he will cancel his reservation so that the "buyer" can snap up the newly-available date. Is it ethical?
Is he violating any T&C's?
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #663 on: January 14, 2013, 06:50:36 PM »
Is he violating any T&C's?

NTIKO. But why is that relevant?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #664 on: January 14, 2013, 06:54:15 PM »
NTIKO. But why is that relevant?
If it is not violating any rules I might not like it but I guess it is OK.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #665 on: January 14, 2013, 06:57:02 PM »
If it is not violating any rules I might not like it but I guess it is OK.

You don't think it's morally wrong to do that?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #666 on: January 14, 2013, 06:59:52 PM »
You don't think it's morally wrong to do that?
I would have to say no.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #667 on: January 14, 2013, 07:02:55 PM »
I would have to say no.

Okay, how about this: I walk into my local TD Bank, clean out their supply of complementary pens, and go sell them to my friends for 25 cents each. Anything wrong with that picture?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #668 on: January 14, 2013, 07:08:50 PM »
Okay, how about this: I walk into my local TD Bank, clean out their supply of complementary pens, and go sell them to my friends for 25 cents each. Anything wrong with that picture?
Can we go back to religion?  :)

If they know you are taking all the pens and don’t have a problem with it then why should I. If it says one per customer or they ask you to stop taking the pens then that is a different story.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Lamdan

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 753
  • Total likes: 9
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #669 on: January 14, 2013, 07:11:07 PM »
Okay, how about this: I walk into my local TD Bank, clean out their supply of complementary pens, and go sell them to my friends for 25 cents each. Anything wrong with that picture?
If you could get all those pens over the internet, I'm sure many people would take all. People are embaressed, and TD relies on that.
DD.com Main Site Deals 0 = DDF Loser

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #670 on: January 14, 2013, 07:12:25 PM »
Can we go back to religion?  :)

Nope. This is a fight to the finish. :P

If they know you are taking all the pens and don’t have a problem with it then why should I. If it says one per customer or they ask you to stop taking the pens then that is a different story.

You only covered a definite "yes" and a definite "no". What if they happened not to notice you, and therefore didn't say anything? Not "yes", and not "no"?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #671 on: January 14, 2013, 07:18:14 PM »
You only covered a definite "yes" and a definite "no". What if they happened not to notice you, and therefore didn't say anything? Not "yes", and not "no"?
In that case I would say unethical because in my mind they would not allow you to take all the pens and you should know this.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #672 on: January 14, 2013, 07:22:11 PM »
In that case I would say unethical because in my mind they would not allow you to take all the pens and you should know this.

In that case, don't you think the hotel wouldn't want you to "take" all the rooms (which you have no intention of actually buying)? Shouldn't you "know this"?

Offline HelpMe

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 3427
  • Total likes: 40
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #673 on: January 14, 2013, 07:24:02 PM »
In that case, don't you think the hotel wouldn't want you to "take" all the rooms (which you have no intention of actually buying)? Shouldn't you "know this"?
I would expect the hotel program to cover this in the T&C's.
"Elvis Has Left The Building"

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #674 on: January 14, 2013, 07:27:02 PM »
I would expect the hotel program to cover this in the T&C's.

...the same way the bank covers pen theft adoption in their T&Cs?!

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #675 on: January 14, 2013, 07:29:06 PM »
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #676 on: January 14, 2013, 07:30:34 PM »
It isn't.

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/legal/spg_terms.html

I know it isn't.

But my point is, the question is not "is it allowed". The question is "is it ethical".

Offline WhyAich

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2591
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Is It Ethical?
« Reply #677 on: January 14, 2013, 07:32:18 PM »
For great Airfare deals - PLEASE contact me via PM or email: whyaich@gmail.com

Offline AJK

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 25419
  • Total likes: 721
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: United Concierge Key; Delta Global Services; American Chairman; US Airways 1K; Hilton Sapphire; Hyatt Tritium; Marriott Californium; Starwood Kryptonium; Hertz Plutonium; National Adamantium, Avis Executive Proactanium
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #678 on: January 14, 2013, 07:32:56 PM »
Personally, I'd find this unethical, as it surely goes against the spirit of the program.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #679 on: January 14, 2013, 07:33:24 PM »
@AJK
what's your take on this one?

@WhyAich
What's yours? ;)