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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556587 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1020 on: April 26, 2013, 09:38:43 AM »
Do you live a happy life?
I feel I do. Why do you ask?
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1021 on: April 26, 2013, 09:41:09 AM »
I care and it seems many other care also. Remember I gave you a short answer, not a song and dance.
I'm interested in the song and dance (preferably with video)
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1022 on: April 26, 2013, 10:18:38 AM »
I feel I do. Why do you ask?

There are those that believe that anything that makes you happy is ethical. Based on your posts that's obviously not your position. I asked to see if a similar scenario is true; if not being ethical would prevent you from being happy.
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1023 on: April 26, 2013, 10:27:12 AM »
There are those that believe that anything that makes you happy is ethical. Based on your posts that's obviously not your position. I asked to see if a similar scenario is true; if not being ethical would prevent you from being happy.
I believe a more Kantian definition of ethics can make one happier. A utilitarian is always worried if what he is doing is ok (i.e ethical) while a Katist (or however you wanna call him) is fine knowing that not everything he does is ethical, and not everything he does HAS to be ethical.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1024 on: April 26, 2013, 11:01:35 AM »
There are those that believe that anything that makes you happy is ethical. Based on your posts that's obviously not your position. I asked to see if a similar scenario is true; if not being ethical would prevent you from being happy.

Regardless of his ethical beliefs, whether CV lives a happy life or not would prove little. How happy he is may only be impacted slightly by his ethical choices that he makes (there are many more factors) and just because some ppl may believe that whatever makes you happy is ethical, does not necessarily mean that whatever is ethical makes you happy.


Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1025 on: April 26, 2013, 11:02:10 AM »
There are those that believe that anything that makes you happy is ethical.
I am not happy 100% of the time. Now I know why.  :)
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Offline Achas Veachas

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1026 on: April 26, 2013, 11:03:25 AM »
I am not happy 100% of the time. Now I know why.  :)
AHA! :P

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1027 on: April 26, 2013, 11:07:44 AM »
I believe a more Kantian definition of ethics can make one happier. A utilitarian is always worried if what he is doing is ok (i.e ethical) while a Katist (or however you wanna call him) is fine knowing that not everything he does is ethical, and not everything he does HAS to be ethical.

For the most part, the purpose of defining ethics is not about what makes one happier or not (at least not through a direct connection). The purpose of ethics is to define how one ought to act in a given scenario. Both a utilitarian and a Kantian eticist has the option of being unethical if they so choose. If you are trying to say that a utilitarian has more calculations to make in order to arrive at the decision that something is ethical or not is a valid point.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1028 on: April 26, 2013, 11:10:01 AM »
The purpose of ethics is to define how one ought to act in a given scenario.
Could not have said it better!
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1029 on: April 26, 2013, 11:54:09 AM »
Could not have said it better!
But if you won't act that way, who cares
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1030 on: April 26, 2013, 12:15:06 PM »
But if you won't act that way, who cares

On a personal level, even if one doesn't do the ethical thing all the time if he/she understands what they ought to do, it will hopefully guide them regarding the larger scale more important decisions in life. On a global level, it was people like Kant who eventually led to the concept of patient autonomy in medicine (in other words, that one can go to the doctor and opt not to have a surgery done even if the doctor insists it's a mistake, that would not have been the case 50-100 years ago).

Offline AJK

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1031 on: April 26, 2013, 12:19:29 PM »
But if you won't act that way, who cares

Meh. Though I used to feel that way, the fact is that people struggle when presented with situations where there is pull from either side of one's yetzer, especially if the "other" side pulls harder.

Failing to adhere to one's ethics in such a scenario does not mean anything except that he failed that single test, and remains alive, though scathed, to fight another day.
2015: 116K bkd | 1.6M brnd | F: OZ,NH,AA,EK | J: UA,CA,TK,DL,TN,AF,VA | LIH,NRT,ROR,PEK,CNS,BOB,MEL,TLV & Pacific Hopper

Offline jj1000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1032 on: April 26, 2013, 12:25:06 PM »
On a personal level, even if one doesn't do the ethical thing all the time if he/she understands what they ought to do, it will hopefully guide them regarding the larger scale more important decisions in life. On a global level, it was people like Kant who eventually led to the concept of patient autonomy in medicine (in other words, that one can go to the doctor and opt not to have a surgery done even if the doctor insists it's a mistake, that would not have been the case 50-100 years ago).
Meh. Though I used to feel that way, the fact is that people struggle when presented with situations where there is pull from either side of one's yetzer, especially if the "other" side pulls harder.

Failing to adhere to one's ethics in such a scenario does not mean anything except that he failed that single test, and remains alive, though scathed, to fight another day.
+1

A person has to know where he is going in life. Even if you are not there yet, as long as you have a direction you want to be, you are far better of than a guy who has no direction at all.

Better to be lost some of the time than all the time...
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1033 on: April 26, 2013, 12:29:45 PM »
Better to be lost some of the time than all the time...

Better to have loved and lost than never to have...

Woops wrong thread  :P

Offline jj1000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1034 on: April 26, 2013, 12:31:54 PM »
Better to have loved and lost than never to have...
Says you. :P
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1035 on: April 26, 2013, 12:39:23 PM »
Says you. :P

Actually Alfred Lord Tennyson, but I would concur with his sentiment.  ;D

Offline jj1000

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1036 on: April 26, 2013, 01:31:36 PM »
Actually Alfred Lord Tennyson, but I would concur with his sentiment.  ;D
  "Better is the man who lived than loved"    "Better to have not loved and lived than to marry and die" -College Fraternity mottos :P
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1037 on: April 26, 2013, 01:35:56 PM »
  "Better is the man who lived than loved"    "Better to have not loved and lived than to marry and die" -College Fraternity mottos :P

Lol!!!

The LSAT would argue that those statements are not mutually exclusive. It is better to have lived than loved but best of all is to live & love! These probably are better to not decipher :-X

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1038 on: April 26, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »
...to make up a reason to get out of jury duty?
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Offline YankyDoodle

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1039 on: April 26, 2013, 05:06:09 PM »
...to make up a reason to get out of jury duty?

Depends if you believe in the government and enforcing its laws.

When you argued in the jury duty thread that it is our civic duty to attend jury, you were in essence arguing in favor of the Social Contract Theory. This is the theory that most strongly influenced the Declaration of Independence and the founding of American society. It argues that by virtue of people living in the USA and enjoying the rights associated with it they are contractually bound to the responsibilties of a US citizen.