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This thread is to discuss whether people feel that something is unethical, not to find out what the law*/T&C says.

Any Halachic questions should be posted here.

*According to CountValentine this includes religion, but unfortunately for him, the general consensus is that religion will always be entwined in this thread.

*Hint* If you have to ask, It's most likely not ethical.
« Last edited by UKinNYS on April 13, 2021, 11:51:23 AM »

Author Topic: Is It Ethical?  (Read 556584 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1120 on: July 25, 2013, 12:33:16 AM »
Banks are well aware of it, they have the option to block it (see Citi/Barclays) and they don't.
Their problem.
Has nothing to do with the banks. Has to do with the way the CRA's work.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1121 on: July 25, 2013, 12:37:02 AM »
Has nothing to do with the banks. Has to do with the way the CRA's work.
-0.5.
But even if we will go by your statement, it comes out that you're saying it's unethical to apply for 2 cards on the same day just because you are aware of a CRA policy that most people have never heard of.  Seems like a stretch.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1122 on: July 25, 2013, 01:13:19 AM »
-0.5.
But even if we will go by your statement, it comes out that you're saying it's unethical to apply for 2 cards on the same day just because you are aware of a CRA policy that most people have never heard of.  Seems like a stretch.
Sorry forgot the title of the thread (thought is was "is it unethical"). I do not feel it is unethical.
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Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1123 on: July 26, 2013, 12:30:03 AM »
Has nothing to do with the banks. Has to do with the way the CRA's work.
I search for CRA on dan's deals shows nothing so.... What are CRA's?

Offline mclovin

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1124 on: July 26, 2013, 12:32:15 AM »
I search for CRA on dan's deals shows nothing so.... What are CRA's?
credir reporting agencies (ie experian)

Offline Centro

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1125 on: July 26, 2013, 12:34:19 AM »
I search for CRA on dan's deals shows nothing so.... What are CRA's?
This.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 12:41:23 AM by centro »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1126 on: July 26, 2013, 12:37:05 AM »
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Centro

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1127 on: July 26, 2013, 12:42:01 AM »

Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1128 on: July 26, 2013, 12:45:39 AM »
This.
AHA
Now that I know what you are talking about, it is Ethical to trick the people lending you money?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1129 on: July 26, 2013, 12:48:08 AM »
AHA
Now that I know what you are talking about, it is Ethical to trick the people lending you money?
No it is not but I don't think everyone would agree you are tricking them.
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Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1130 on: July 26, 2013, 12:49:37 AM »
No it is not but I don't think everyone would agree you are tricking them.

Ok, give me another explanation.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1131 on: July 26, 2013, 12:54:15 AM »
Ok, give me another explanation.
The CRA combines some pulls made on the same day into one. Maybe that is the intended way it works. Where does the "trick" part come in?
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Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1132 on: July 26, 2013, 12:58:32 AM »
The CRA combines some pulls made on the same day into one. Maybe that is the intended way it works. Where does the "trick" part come in?
But not others. Do they tell you, "hey get 3 cards for the price of one"?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1133 on: July 26, 2013, 01:01:29 AM »
But not others. Do they tell you, "hey get 3 cards for the price of one"?
Not sure I understand. I apply for three cards from Chase one after the other. Why do they need to pull my report three times in less than a minute?
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Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1134 on: July 26, 2013, 02:53:02 AM »
But not others. Do they tell you, "hey get 3 cards for the price of one"?

I'm not sure why you're barking up this tree. The MBM is from the least ethically questionable tactics in the points and miles playbook. And by least I mean not questionable at all.

I don't even understand your hava amina.

A credit pull is not a "price". It is a tool they use to make a decision on the applicant's credit worthiness. It's not cheating to apply for cards at a time you know you're more likely to be accepted. Besides, they are offering bonuses, and advertising on sites like Dan's and other P&M blogs precisely because they want people to apply for many cards. These are their products, and they want to sell as much of them as possible. They need to mitigate risk, but they always want to extend you as much credit as they can, because the more you spend, the more they make.
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Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1135 on: July 26, 2013, 06:02:43 PM »

I don't even understand your hava amina.

A credit pull is not a "price". It is a tool they use to make a decision on the applicant's credit worthiness. It's not cheating to apply for cards at a time you know you're more likely to be accepted. Besides, they are offering bonuses, and advertising on sites like Dan's and other P&M blogs precisely because they want people to apply for many cards. These are their products, and they want to sell as much of them as possible. They need to mitigate risk, but they always want to extend you as much credit as they can, because the more you spend, the more they make.

The reason I ponder this issue is because the CRA counts the number of credit pulls you have in order to gauge your credit worthiness, which is exactly why you prefer to get 3 cards at the same time. Credit pulls are not only - as you wrongfully claim- a tool to figure out your credit history, as they are also a counting mechanism to see how many time you apply.

They do want costumers, but do not want costumers with too many credit pulls.

Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1136 on: July 27, 2013, 09:53:07 PM »

The reason I ponder this issue is because the CRA counts the number of credit pulls you have in order to gauge your credit worthiness, which is exactly why you prefer to get 3 cards at the same time. Credit pulls are not only - as you wrongfully claim- a tool to figure out your credit history, as they are also a counting mechanism to see how many time you apply.

They do want costumers, but do not want costumers with too many credit pulls.

That's why it makes sense to do an app o Rama, so when you apply the amount of pulls on your report is less.

The only way it would be unethical was if you were intending to be delinquent in your payments, and were trying to get extra credit without intention to pay.

Even in that scenario, it's the latter portion that would make it unethical, as opposed to the seeking credit part.

You do not have an obligation to tell a potential lender that you are seeking other loans unless they specifically asked you.


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Offline Ergel

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1137 on: July 27, 2013, 11:27:32 PM »
Or find the (unlocked) room on each floor where they keep the spare mattresses, and help yourself.

(Reminder: please keep discussions of ethics in the "Is It Ethical?" thread.)
Why has this thread been confused with is it (or rather it is) stealing?
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Hirshthg

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1138 on: July 27, 2013, 11:47:12 PM »
The only way it would be unethical was if you were intending to be delinquent in your payments, and were trying to get extra credit without intention to pay.  Even in that scenario, it's the latter portion that would make it unethical, as opposed to the seeking credit part. You do not have an obligation to tell a potential lender that you are seeking other loans unless they specifically asked you. 

So you are saying effectually that if you intend t pay back the money, the banks have nothing to worry about.  However it could be argued that the banks have a right to gauge your risk by using all the tools they have put in place, and by bypassing them you place the lender at a higher risk level. If you lost your job, or were hit by another unforeseen misfortune who would be left holding the bag? Your lender.

To claim that nothing is given in a loan when the borrower intends on paying back seams a bit much to me.

As to not needing to disclose your debts to the lender because they are public, it is because they can be seen being public, however with this maneuver you hide you true borrowing power.

So far the best answer I have heard is that they can stop it, and they don't.

Offline itsyehuda

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Re: Is It Ethical?
« Reply #1139 on: July 28, 2013, 03:02:15 AM »

So you are saying effectually that if you intend t pay back the money, the banks have nothing to worry about.  However it could be argued that the banks have a right to gauge your risk by using all the tools they have put in place, and by bypassing them you place the lender at a higher risk level. If you lost your job, or were hit by another unforeseen misfortune who would be left holding the bag? Your lender.

To claim that nothing is given in a loan when the borrower intends on paying back seams a bit much to me.

As to not needing to disclose your debts to the lender because they are public, it is because they can be seen being public, however with this maneuver you hide you true borrowing power.

So far the best answer I have heard is that they can stop it, and they don't.

They can just add a question to the application. Have you signed up for credit recently? How many credit cards will you sign up for today? You seem to want to approach the transaction from their side.


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