Have lockdowns caused a massive increase in mortality?

[jye]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rise-in-non-covid-19-deaths-hits-life-insurers-11645576252?mod=mhp

“Industry executives and actuaries believe many of these other fatalities are tied to delays in medical care as a result of lockdowns in 2020, and then, later, people’s fears of seeking out treatment and trouble lining up appointments.

Some insurers see continued high levels of these deaths for some time, even if Covid-19 deaths decline this year.”

“Among the non-coronavirus-specific claims are deaths from heart and circulatory issues and neurological disorders, he said.“

“In discussing third-quarter results with analysts, Hartford Financial Chief Executive Christopher Swift said the company had “experienced higher levels of non-Covid excess mortality during the quarter,” including heart, stroke and cancer causes of death.“

The article attributes it to delayed medical care, increased substance abuse  (lockdowns causing almost as many deaths as covid? Pretty significant.) and perhaps some delayed deaths from previous covid infections. Is it possible vaccines played a role? The numbers insurers are seeing definitely warrant a closer look.

[Euclid]

Have long term effects from Covid (the sickness) caused a massive increase in mortality?

[PlatinumGuy]

Delayed healthcare was a result of overflowing hospitals from a lack of lockdowns.

Alcohol sales were dramatically down during lockdowns.

[aygart]

Delayed healthcare was a result of overflowing hospitals from a lack of lockdowns.

Revisionist history. All non emergency procedures were canceled regardless of how full or empty the hospitals were and even if they were scheduled to be in a doctors office with no relation to a hospital at all.

[whYME]

Delayed healthcare was a result of overflowing hospitals from a lack of lockdowns.

lol

[TimT]

Food intake went way up during lockdown, & no gym or outdoor activity to counter it.

[TimT]

People avoided going to the Dr. or hospital for fear of catching Covid. I recall health departments & hospitals begging people to not push off vital medical care.

[jye]

Have long term effects from Covid (the sickness) caused a massive increase in mortality?

The simple way to isolate would be to compare countries that had draconian lockdowns and almost no early covid infections (Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand) and look at insurance data of non covid mortality.

It would also be interesting to see highly vaccinated countries vs low vaccination rates to isolate any potential affect from vaccinations as well. Insurers are a great source of reliable data because there is little incentive for them to manipulate data; that would only make it harder for them to predict future losses and payouts, unlike hospitals which, until recently, were heavily incentivized to count patients WITH incidental covid as covid hospitalizations and deaths.

[aygart]

People avoided going to the Dr. or hospital for fear of catching Covid. I recall health departments & hospitals begging people to not push off vital medical care.

I know someone whose chemo was pushed off by a hospital that never took covid patients

[TimT]

I know someone whose chemo was pushed off by a hospital that never took covid patients

What reason did they give ? Did hospitals really have the option to not accept Covid patients ?

[jye]

Delayed healthcare was a result of overflowing hospitals from a lack of lockdowns.

Alcohol sales were dramatically down during lockdowns.

What?
Anyone remember the huge hospital ships and field hospitals that went completely unused? There was some strain on the healthcare system, in part due to doctors and nurses quarantining for 10-14 every time there was exposure, but your statement couldn’t be further from the truth.

Just to state the obvious, delayed healthcare that results in increased mortality isn’t typically even in a hospital setting. It typically relates to primary care and screening visits. Nothing to do with ICU’s or emergency rooms.

[Euclid]

The simple way to isolate would be to compare countries that had draconian lockdowns and almost no early covid infections (Australia, Hong Kong, New Zealand) and look at insurance data of non covid mortality.

It would also be interesting to see highly vaccinated countries vs low vaccination rates to isolate any potential affect from vaccinations as well. Insurers are a great source of reliable data because there is little incentive for them to manipulate data; that would only make it harder for them to predict future losses and payouts, unlike hospitals which, until recently, were heavily incentivized to count patients WITH incidental covid as covid hospitalizations and deaths.

Of the remainder, in addition to deaths driven by deferred medical care, Mr. Davison’s team believes that some may stem from earlier Covid-19 infections. He cited scientific research indicating that the virus may pave the way for future medical complications, so survivors may “later die from the toll Covid has taken on their bodies.”

Davidson is the CEO of OneAmerica Financial Partners, a group-life-insurance seller.

[aygart]

What reason did they give ? Did hospitals really have the option to not accept Covid patients ?

They never deal with infectious diseases and were unequipped for it.

[jye]

Davidson is the CEO of OneAmerica Financial Partners, a group-life-insurance seller.

He seems to guess it was partially delayed care part delayed covid mortality. No one is going anywhere near vaccines. He may very well be right, but all possibilities definitely need to be isolated and studied given such disturbing data.

[Yehuda57]

Delayed healthcare was a result of overflowing hospitals from a lack of lockdowns.

This is so infuriatingly wrong I'm glad others can LOL. I know of someone dying of what could have been treatable cancer because her checkups were canceled for MONTHS because of Covid in an area that has never, throughout the entire pandemic, even sniffed being overcrowded. And as Aygart said, the facilities he would have gone to didn't even treat covid patients, they were strictly oncology.

[AsherO]

This is so infuriatingly wrong I'm glad others can LOL. I know of someone dying of what could have been treatable cancer because her checkups were canceled for MONTHS because of Covid in an area that has never, throughout the entire pandemic, even sniffed being overcrowded. And as Aygart said, the facilities he would have gone to didn't even treat covid patients, they were strictly oncology.

Could still be nursing shortages due to overflowing hospitals elsewhere (and/or nursing shortages due to vaccine mandates)

[aygart]

Could still be nursing shortages due to overflowing hospitals elsewhere (and/or nursing shortages due to vaccine mandates)

Lockdowns prevented endodontist from doing root canals

[Yehuda57]

Could still be nursing shortages due to overflowing hospitals elsewhere (and/or nursing shortages due to vaccine mandates)

A) This was pre vaccine, and B) Where are the facilities who are were saying, "We'd love to be open but we don't have nurses"? There may be a couple, but overwhelmingly, ALL medical facilities shut down because of lockdowns, not because of lack of lockdowns. Such as:

Lockdowns prevented endodontist from doing root canals

And physical therapists couldn't treat torn ACL patients, endoscopy centers had to close, and on and on and on. A routine colonoscopy is why I'm still alive. Thank G-d NY had reopened enough by the time I needed one. Plenty of others weren't as lucky.

Maybe, just for one second, people can stop gaslighting and say, "At the time it looked like the right decision, but in retrospect it was wrong." Clinging to patently wrong decisions and BLAMING the people who acted differently for the bad outcomes is what is causing people to avoid vaccines and other medical advice as you can see IN THIS VERY THREAD.

[CountValentine]

Revisionist history. All non emergency procedures were canceled regardless of how full or empty the hospitals were and even if they were scheduled to be in a doctors office with no relation to a hospital at all.

You need to move to somewhere that has real health care.

[CountValentine]

I know someone whose chemo was pushed off by a hospital that never took covid patients

You need to move to somewhere that has real health care.