Have lockdowns caused a massive increase in mortality?

[Yehuda57]

You heard it first by me so remember:

Sure, absolutely no one has been speaking about these things which everyone has been speaking about for almost two years.

[Euclid]

What about the children?

You heard it first by me so remember:

In a few years, the educational system will vastly lower its expectation of children of the "lockdown generation" (they will call it the corona generation, but we all know that covid was not at all dangerous for young, healthy, people.) The amount of kids going to college and other forms of education will plummet.
In a few years, many prominent phycologists will come out with studies on how the lockdowns destroyed the mental health of the next generation. Many teenagers and young adults won't be able to cope with basic day to day life. The amount of mental health medicine will skyrocket.
In a few years, we will see a rise in crime linked to the previous 2 causes.

Basically, while the lockdowns were made to protect the old and sick, it was in essence a death blow (sometimes literally - suicide rates went way, way, up) to the next generation. People will pay for their lack of care and panicked approach to what should have been a slow, thought out method of preserving the old but continuing on life as usual.

I thought college was a bad thing

[biobook]

What about the children?

Yes, where are the children?  We want predictions about the future, so we need either a child or a fool.

....we all know that covid was not at all dangerous for young, healthy, people.

Did you read through the BDE thread?

The amount number of kids going to college and other forms of education will plummet.

FTFY

In a few years, many prominent phycologists will come out with studies on how the lockdowns destroyed the mental health of the next generation.

This reminds me of the poem:
Algy met a bear.
The bear was bulgy.
The bulge was Algy.

Basically, while the lockdowns were made to protect the old and sick,

This is basically incorrect and overly simplistic.

[Moshe Green]

Yes, where are the children?  We want predictions about the future, so we need either a child or a fool. Or common sense
Did you read through the BDE thread? yes, didnt see enough young or healthy people there to justify lockdowns
This reminds me of the poem:
Algy met a bear.
The bear was bulgy.
The bulge was Algy.
nice poem, im not sure what the connection is...
This is basically incorrect and overly simplistic.if its incorrect than its not overly simplistic because its wrong, if its overy simplistic then its correct, just said simply. please make up your mind and get back to me.

[biobook]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rise-in-non-covid-19-deaths-hits-life-insurers-11645576252?mod=mhp

“Industry executives and actuaries believe many of these other fatalities are tied to delays in medical care as a result of lockdowns in 2020, and then, later, people’s fears of seeking out treatment and trouble lining up appointments.

It's notoriously difficult to parse out which factors are responsible for any uptick in deaths, although delays in medical care are certainly one possible explanation.  But  rather than just executives in the insurance industry and actuaries, I'd also want to hear the medical perspective.

“Among the non-coronavirus-specific claims are deaths from heart and circulatory issues and neurological disorders, he said.“

“In discussing third-quarter results with analysts, Hartford Financial Chief Executive Christopher Swift said the company had “experienced higher levels of non-Covid excess mortality during the quarter,” including heart, stroke and cancer causes of death.“

Medical research recently showed that these very issues - heart and circulatory issues - seem to be associated with having had covid, even mild cases.  Does the WSJ article mention this?

" New research supports the notion that COVID-19 can cause long-term heart problems.

The analysis of U.S. health data found COVID patients are at increased risk of heart complications for at least a year after infection.

Those complications include heart rhythm problems, inflammation, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure and death, according to findings published Feb. 7 in the journal Nature Medicine."
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-02-10/more-evidence-that-covid-infection-brings-long-term-heart-risks

[aygart]

lol

I am not sure why you find these facts funny

[Dan]

it was in essence a death blow (sometimes literally - suicide rates went way, way, up)

{{Citation needed}}

[aygart]

I've had much more checkups through covid than I had beforehand

Through the 2 years or in the first few months?

[aygart]

I've had much more checkups through covid than I had beforehand

Through the 2 years or in the first few months?

[CountValentine]

Is it fair to say the only thing we know at this point is not very much? It will take years if not decades to know all the ramifications. Even then it will be slanted/argued depend on the side you are on.

Try to educate yourself and filter out the noise.

Let's take masks as an example.
If you believe that a mask will stop you from getting infected you need to educate yourself.
If you believe a mask does not help with the spread or getting infected you need to educate yourself.
 

[aygart]

{{Citation needed}}

IIRC I once posted numbers showing that they dropped precipitously.

[CountValentine]

Through the 2 years or in the first few months?

I have checkups every 6/mo.

[aygart]

Is it fair to say the only thing we know at this point is not very much? It will take years if not decades to know all the ramifications. Even then it will be slanted/argued depend on the side you are on.

Try to educate yourself and filter out the noise.

Let's take masks as an example.
If you believe that a mask will stop you from getting infected you need to educate yourself.
If you believe a mask does not help with the spread or getting infected you need to educate yourself.

Sounds fair to me. Just because the lockdowns may have had ramifications doesn't mean they were not justified at the time.

[biobook]

Yes, where are the children?  We want predictions about the future, so we need either a child or a fool. Or common sense

In other words, it doesn't require any specific knowledge or analysis, just someone sitting back and thinking?  In other words, anyone can predict the future?

Did you read through the BDE thread? yes, didnt see enough young or healthy people there to justify lockdowns

You specifically said that covid was "not at all dangerous for healthy, young people".  In the BDE thread (and elsewhere) there are names of some of the healthy, young people who died or were seriously injured by covid.

nice poem, im not sure what the connection is...

And I'm not sure what the connection is between mental health and phycology (the study of algae).
 

This is basically incorrect and overly simplistic.if its incorrect than its not overly simplistic because its wrong, if its overy simplistic then its correct, just said simply. please make up your mind and get back to me.

Your statement that lockdowns "were made to protect the old and sick" is incorrect.  The basic intention of the lockdowns was to slow transmission of disease.

What is overly simplistic is your approach to the question of the impact that lockdowns had on society.

[Dan]

IIRC I once posted numbers showing that they dropped precipitously.

IIRC I once posted numbers showing that they dropped precipitously.

IIRC I once posted numbers showing that they dropped precipitously.

זאגט זשע נאך א מאל, און טאקע נאך א מאל

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/5-16-21-news-roundup-violence-israel-meron-thoughts-get-away-murder-inflation-chinese-vaccine-delta-abuse-nazi-escape-rental-car-shortage/#No_Lockdowns_Did_Not_Cause_Increased_Suicides

[aygart]

זאגט זשע נאך א מאל, און טאקע נאך א מאל

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=128193.0

[Yehuda57]

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/news-roundup/5-16-21-news-roundup-violence-israel-meron-thoughts-get-away-murder-inflation-chinese-vaccine-delta-abuse-nazi-escape-rental-car-shortage/#No_Lockdowns_Did_Not_Cause_Increased_Suicides

And since then I've seen other reports that suicides did indeed increase. I'm not about to spend time finding them, because I tried to search a specific Twitter account I believe shared them and they don't allow searches for "suicide" on Twitter. IINM, suicide reporting lags for a very long time and it takes more than a year to get proper reporting.

זאגט זשע נאך א מאל, און טאקע נאך א מאל

There's a banana in your ear

[CountValentine]

IINM, suicide reporting lags for a very long time and it takes more than a year to get proper reporting.

So if suicide rate is up how do we know it was because of covid?
If it drops, will we credit it to covid?

[jye]

It's notoriously difficult to parse out which factors are responsible for any uptick in deaths, although delays in medical care are certainly one possible explanation.  But  rather than just executives in the insurance industry and actuaries, I'd also want to hear the medical perspective.

Medical research recently showed that these very issues - heart and circulatory issues - seem to be associated with having had covid, even mild cases.  Does the WSJ article mention this?

" New research supports the notion that COVID-19 can cause long-term heart problems.

The analysis of U.S. health data found COVID patients are at increased risk of heart complications for at least a year after infection.

Those complications include heart rhythm problems, inflammation, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure and death, according to findings published Feb. 7 in the journal Nature Medicine."
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-02-10/more-evidence-that-covid-infection-brings-long-term-heart-risks

It could be almost anything. It’s possible that even asymptomatic covid can alter the pathology of previously indolent tumors to make them more aggressive. Anything is possible.

The most likely factor appears to be the lockdown, but until we have some sampling done from the excess deaths group or studies of countries with low incident of covid we can only speculate.

[EJB]

This is an indisputable fact for many regions. This gaslighting is insane. Go read the threads on the covid board through most of the summer, we were speaking about it then, we're not just making this up now.

If you cancelled a procedure or checkup after July 2020 due to covid that’s on you, not the lockdowns.

For April-Jun, you’re prob better off.