Cleaning Help-Lakewood

[Jellybelly]

Generally that’s determined by how much people are willing to pay.. see how this works?

So if 100 people pay X an hour and 3 people are willing to pay $5 more an hour, does that mean the 100 people are paying below the market rate?

[S209]

So if 100 people pay X an hour and 3 people are willing to pay $5 more an hour, does that mean the 100 people are paying below the market rate?

I can link to some good economics books if you’d like. I’d start with Freakonomics because it’s the most entertaining.

If 3 people are willing to pay more than 97% of the market, those slots will likely be taken immediately by 3 workers and the rest will receive the lower amount, assuming it’s enough for workers to take those jobs instead of taking the other opportunities available to them or simply not working, making the market rate the dollar amount that most employers are willing to pay and most workers are willing to work for.

[ffam]

Plenty of people go away for yom tov, and their cleaning ladies are available for yom tov.

then it wouldn't be taking away a neighbor's cleaning help. totally not the discussion here

Totally is the discussion here.

I started this thread because Im looking for help. Never thought about taking away anyone's help. Sorry you had a bad experience with this, and I could understand your need to vent your frustration. I still stand with my original question.

Looking for housekeeping style cleaning help for over Pesach in Lakewood. Is anyone going away that has someone that would be looking for work over Pesach?
Please PM. TIA

[yungermanchik]

Nasty and selfish because they want to pay more to an independent worker so they would work for them?

עיין שו"ע חו"מ רל"ז

You’re consistent I guess, but I feel like you’re missing a key component of capitalism. If you pay more people will be more likely to work for you. That’s not a bad thing. It improves he plight of workers.

We live by the Torah not by Capitalism.

[aygart]

What happens when the person making the new offer is past their busy time? Will they still be interested in the higher price or will they now have done their damage and run?

[aygart]

But may in fact be muttar the busiest time of year and assur at other times.

Isn't that regarding a case where it is not completed?

[etech0]

Will your cleaning lady come back to you and say she was offered a better price and would you like to match it? Or will she just disappear and stop answering your calls?

[aygart]

Will your cleaning lady come back to you and say she was offered a better price and would you like to match it? Or will she just disappear and stop answering your calls?

It depends if she feels you treat her well and really would rather use it as a bargaining chip.

[S209]

What happens when the person making the new offer is past their busy time? Will they still be interested in the higher price or will they now have done their damage and run?

Spoken like a true employer. What damage is there? The employee makes more money? If the other offer isn’t genuine, and it isn’t worth it to pay to retain the employee, the employee would obviously need to remain at the lower price. Otherwise, I see no damage. The worker went to the highest bidder.

עיין שו"ע חו"מ רל"ז We live by the Torah not by Capitalism.

Sorry? Where does it talk about offering *more* to a worker? That discusses a case where the salaries would remain constant, only the employer would change.

Furthermore, dina demalchusa most definitely comes in to play here. These are not halachically actionable cases.

[aygart]

Spoken like a true employer. What damage is there? The employee makes more money? If the other offer isn’t genuine, and it isn’t worth it to pay to retain the employee, the employee would obviously need to remain at the lower price. Otherwise, I see no damage. The worker went to the highest bidder.Sorry? Where does it talk about offering *more* to a worker? That discusses a case where the salaries would remain constant, only the employer would change.

Furthermore, dina demalchusa most definitely comes in to play here. These are not halachically actionable cases.

Only if the employee knows that it will be temporary. How many do?

You are incorrect about the Halacha. It is absolutely takking about offering more.

[S209]

Only if the employee knows that it will be temporary. How many do?

You are incorrect about the Halacha. It is absolutely takking about offering more.

Source?

[jye]

Here is an easy read for those who haven’t gone through the sugya.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/281099/halachic-analysis-you-stole-my-housekeeper.html

[jye]

Source?

The classic Ani Hamehapech by mekach umemkar which is assur according to all poskim is outbidding the first prospective purchaser. Offering the employee a higher wage is obviously not a heter.

[yuneeq]

Ba”h never had an employee hired away from me, and I would never recruit from another Jewish employer. Nor would I offer more money to someone’s cleaning lady.

Ignore all this halacha/capitalist hock, what ever happened to veahavta lereacha komacha?

[yuneeq]

Will your cleaning lady come back to you and say she was offered a better price and would you like to match it? Or will she just disappear and stop answering your calls?

She’ll get offered a long term job for an obscene amount the week before pesach, it doesn’t even make sense for them to ask for a counteroffer. Then a week later she gets dropped like a hot potato.

[yuneeq]

Something I never see mentioned in these debates and I’m sure it happens regularly - people see someone (that matches the cleaning lady profile) in the street, and offer to come work for them. They’ll tell you they don’t have a current job but who ever knows?

[yelped]

Ba”h never had an employee hired away from me, and I would never recruit from another Jewish employer. Nor would I offer more money to someone’s cleaning lady.

Ignore all this halacha/capitalist hock, what ever happened to veahavta lereacha komacha?

ועשית הישר והטוב is not a recommendation, it is a Halacha.

[aygart]

Source?

עיין שו"ע חו"מ רל"ז We live by the Torah not by Capitalism.

[aygart]

She’ll get offered a long term job for an obscene amount the week before pesach, it doesn’t even make sense for them to ask for a counteroffer. Then a week later she gets dropped like a hot potato.

This happens all the time. I presume @S209 has no problem with that because it is capitalist.

[S209]

This happens all the time. I presume @S209 has no problem with that because it is capitalist.

Lying to and misleading someone is assur and wrong. I assume you believe I condone all immoral behavior and Kol devorim assurim in the pursuit of capitalism?

Again, I have never done it myself, but when there was a debate going on several months ago about people causing rates to go up by offering a lot of money (I believe there was a letter in the Scoop about it) I asked a Rav (R’ Yisroel Miller) and he said it was mutar gamur to approach anyone you meet and offer them whatever you want. This was asked specifically regarding cleaning ladies.

With that in mind, I see nothing wrong with hiring anyone with the prospect of more money, short term or longer term. A current employer should be given the opportunity to match. Obviously if something is assur you should not do it.

PS: My mother took my advice and offered her cleaning lady (whom we share with her) more money yesterday, and she promptly started showing up again. She was very clear that it is only until after Pesach.

PS: I removed a part of this post because I didn’t think it should be posted publicly.