Poll

Should @countvalentine and @imayid2 stop with there endless bickering

Please yes!
5 (55.6%)
Please no I love it
1 (11.1%)
I don't mind
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: October 17, 2022, 05:07:57 PM

Author Topic: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade  (Read 124803 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1640 on: October 13, 2022, 09:39:29 PM »
No one said it is. I'm explaining what he consistently refers to as "my" viewpoint which in this conversation is RMF which is fair to portray as very valid viewpoint, certainly in the context of the claim in the article he cited.If you have a substance based argument why not say it instead of making aloof statements? This is a simplified portrayal of his position. Let me know where you disagree. Certainly the main point I'm using it for stands.
Wouldn't it be also appropriate to back up some of the valid points you know to be true if you're involved in this conversation?
You can start with SMA 425:8 and PT1

I see no purpose in the conversation and I am not sure what you are getting at here. I am not involved in the conversation.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 09:44:21 PM by aygart »
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1641 on: October 13, 2022, 09:39:58 PM »
I gave you an example.
Right. That one is a complete distortion.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1642 on: October 13, 2022, 09:42:24 PM »
Right. That one is a complete distortion.
Ok, what is the distortion? You don't believe aborting an embryo is murder?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1643 on: October 13, 2022, 09:46:42 PM »
You can start with SMA 425:8 and PT1
I said RMFs position. Do you disagree?
I am not involved in the conversation.
Aha.

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1644 on: October 13, 2022, 09:50:43 PM »
I said RMFs position. Do you disagree?Aha.
Why would that even be a conversation here?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1645 on: October 13, 2022, 09:52:47 PM »
Ok, what is the distortion? You don't believe aborting an embryo is murder?
I don't know what you mean. The distortion is to says that Judaism allows abortion, and to use the catchphrase "life doesn't start at conceiving" to support it.
As for others not believing it's "murder", define murder. Its a technicality. It is strictly prohibited. The technicalities play a role in deciding excruciating circumstances.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1646 on: October 13, 2022, 09:54:38 PM »
Why would that even be a conversation here?
So don't talk about it, or say you feel it shouldn't be discussed here. Don't come and say it's wrong without backing yourself up!

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1647 on: October 13, 2022, 09:57:20 PM »
I never looked into that.
Shouldn't you before writing this?
Let me show you how this works
"Christianity has never defined life beginning at conception,
That would be false.

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1648 on: October 13, 2022, 09:59:39 PM »
So don't talk about it, or say you feel it shouldn't be discussed here. Don't come and say it's wrong without backing yourself up!
RMF also does not hold that the rules of rodef are the same for a fetus and for a child. That is the distinction  made in the gemara and SA there.

I can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish by arguing about a RMF with a non jew who never studied it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1649 on: October 13, 2022, 10:00:08 PM »
I don't know what you mean. The distortion is to says that Judaism allows abortion, and to use the catchphrase "life doesn't start at conceiving" to support it.
What are you talking about. You keep going off on these tangents. Here is the example I gave that you said was a distortion. Judaism or conceiving has nothing to do with it.
That is great and no issue.
You believe aborting an embryo is murder.
Others believe it is not.
I have no issue with either position. If I understand your view. You have a major issue with those that don't agree with you.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1650 on: October 13, 2022, 10:01:52 PM »
Shouldn't you before writing this?
Do you understand Christianity and Catholics are not the same?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1651 on: October 13, 2022, 10:02:56 PM »
I can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish by arguing about a RMF with a non jew who never studied it.
When you figure it out can you let me know?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1652 on: October 13, 2022, 10:54:04 PM »
RMF also does not hold that the rules of rodef are the same for a fetus and for a child. That is the distinction  made in the gemara and SA there.
Of course not. משמים קרדפי ליה makes it harder in a way to abort than to kill a child in a similar circumstances. How does that make what I said incorrect?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1653 on: October 13, 2022, 10:58:43 PM »
I can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish by arguing about a RMF with a non jew who never studied it.
There is no reason to "argue" about it. You're doing that :)
Very simple point was being made that that article was a distortion. They said "life" at that point was never a Jewish idea. They meant it in a way that was an absolute distortion. I'm bringing out that point by referencing RMF. There is no need to argue about it.

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1654 on: October 13, 2022, 11:01:02 PM »
Of course not. משמים קרדפי ליה makes it harder in a way to abort than to kill a child in a similar circumstances. How does that make what I said incorrect?
A child would not be allowed to be killed for similar circumstances. Also, my understanding is that the status of אינו נפש גמור plays a large role according to RMF, but I have not gone through that well enough. It is definitely that way according to many /most poskim
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Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1655 on: October 13, 2022, 11:02:25 PM »
There is no reason to "argue" about it. You're doing that :)
Very simple point was being made that that article was a distortion. They said "life" at that point was never a Jewish idea. They meant it in a way that was an absolute distortion. I'm bringing out that point by referencing RMF. There is no need to argue about it.
If that is the issue with the article then they are doing pretty well.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1656 on: October 13, 2022, 11:04:04 PM »
A child would not be allowed to be killed for similar circumstances.
That is very much, if not totally, incorrect.
Also, my understanding is that the status of אינו נפש גמור plays a large role according to RMF, but I have not gone through that well enough.
Of course it plays a big role. Because otherwise you run into the משמים קא רדפי problem.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1657 on: October 13, 2022, 11:04:58 PM »
If that is the issue with the article then they are doing pretty well.
That Judaisms allows for abortion like the article states?
Did you read it?

Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1658 on: October 13, 2022, 11:22:57 PM »


That is very much, if not totally, incorrect.

That is exactly what the SA says. In the same circumstances a fetus gets aborted but if it is far enough in the birth process it does not. Are you referring to a different circumstance?

משמיא קרדפי is even when considered born. That is the end of the seif
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Offline aygart

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1659 on: October 13, 2022, 11:23:45 PM »
That Judaisms allows for abortion like the article states?
Did you read it?
No I didn't. If the issue is more than RMF then why pin it on that?
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