Poll

Should @countvalentine and @imayid2 stop with there endless bickering

Please yes!
5 (55.6%)
Please no I love it
1 (11.1%)
I don't mind
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: October 17, 2022, 05:07:57 PM

Author Topic: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade  (Read 122813 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1680 on: October 14, 2022, 09:30:21 AM »
I have given it to you, like multiple times.
What is your view?
You dug your own hole. Now you want me to help you out?  :P
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1681 on: October 14, 2022, 09:33:30 AM »
It is a form of murder. Not quite the murder of a full fledged homo sapien, but of a lesser mid developing form.
It seems your position has changed/evolved. When does abortion become "full fledged"?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1682 on: October 14, 2022, 09:39:11 AM »
It seems your position has changed/evolved. When does abortion become "full fledged"?
Changed from where?
Judaism never and at no point in pregnancy accords the same severity as the murder of a born person. No one disagrees with that.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1683 on: October 14, 2022, 09:47:23 AM »
Changed from where?
Judaism never and at no point in pregnancy accords the same severity as the murder of a born person. No one disagrees with that.
So all those times you said abortion was murder you didn't mean in the real sense of the word "murder".
Maybe that is why it is called abortion and not murder? Or they call it terminating a pregnancy and not murder?
So, when you use murder, it is not the same way 99% of the country uses it. Now you see the issue?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1684 on: October 14, 2022, 10:22:10 AM »
So all those times you said abortion was murder you didn't mean in the real sense of the word "murder".
Maybe that is why it is called abortion and not murder? Or they call it terminating a pregnancy and not murder?
So, when you use murder, it is not the same way 99% of the country uses it. Now you see the issue?
I don't know why you feel you own the "real sense of the word".
99.99% acknowledges that an unborn baby isn't the same "level murder" as a born one. So when they use the word murder how do they differ than my usage?
After a certain grey area there is no reason the terminology isn't appropriate from a purely rationalistic viewpoint. In your zeal to expose politicization, you refuse to acknowledge that "murder" is a perfectly appropriate word after a certain point at which I might have been referring to.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1685 on: October 14, 2022, 10:25:20 AM »
World usages and definitions, is that all we disagree about at this point? I'll consider that progress.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1686 on: October 14, 2022, 11:16:27 AM »
I don't know why you feel you own the "real sense of the word".
I don't own anything.
I can say 1 plus 1 equal 2 but your response will be that depends on what plus means.
99+% of the country would agree with 1 plus 1 equal 2 but that doesn't mean I own it.
Through every debate you want to project your shortcomings onto me. I am not putting my views on anyone. You are the one doing that.

World usages and definitions, is that all we disagree about at this point? I'll consider that progress.
You try and twist words because you dug a hole you can't get out of.

I ask when does life begin and you give a pretzel answer. This goes back to the lawsuit about putting Christian values (life begins at conception) vs the Jewish women's religious beliefs that life does not begin at conception.   
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1687 on: October 14, 2022, 11:28:40 AM »
When the one side talks about murder this is what the overwhelming of those are talking about.

"Science has indisputably established the fact that, as Dr. Keith Moore writes in The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition, “Human development begins at fertilization. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual." A preborn child is not a potential person, but a person with potential — a whole, distinct, living human being. The difference between you as an embryo or fetus and you today as a college student is only a function of time and nutrition."

Now if I understand @imayid2 correctly, you don't believe this because life begins at birth?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1688 on: October 14, 2022, 11:45:14 AM »
When the one side talks about murder this is what the overwhelming of those are talking about.

"Science has indisputably established the fact that, as Dr. Keith Moore writes in The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition, “Human development begins at fertilization. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual." A preborn child is not a potential person, but a person with potential — a whole, distinct, living human being. The difference between you as an embryo or fetus and you today as a college student is only a function of time and nutrition."

Now if I understand @imayid2 correctly, you don't believe this because life begins at birth?
I do not agree that at fertilization we can rationally accord an embryo the rights of "a person". The embryo isn't a fully developed person. Not a potential person nor a person with potential. A developing person.
I have succinctly explained why I refuse to agree with the catchphrase "life begins at birth". Why are you insisting on being deliberately obtuse?

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1689 on: October 14, 2022, 11:48:11 AM »
I ask when does life begin and you give a pretzel answer. This goes back to the lawsuit about putting Christian values (life begins at conception) vs the Jewish women's religious beliefs that life does not begin at conception.
One might be excused for assuming that pretzels holes and fish are invoked when there isn't a substance based objection that can be given. 

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1690 on: October 14, 2022, 11:49:58 AM »
Why does @CountValentine refuse to outline his personal views? Is he hiding something?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1691 on: October 14, 2022, 11:53:40 AM »
I have succinctly explained why I refuse to agree with the catchphrase "life begins at birth". Why are you insisting on being deliberately obtuse?
It is not a catchphrase.
When does HUMAN life begin? 
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1692 on: October 14, 2022, 11:58:00 AM »
Why does @CountValentine refuse to outline his personal views? Is he hiding something?
Maybe because I don't try and put my views onto others? Remember I am the one for letting others to decide based on their religious beliefs among other things.
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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1693 on: October 14, 2022, 12:28:34 PM »
Maybe because I don't try and put my views onto others?.
Maybe you conflated my religious beliefs with what I believe should be forced on other? Can that be?
Remember I am the one for letting others to decide based on their religious beliefs among other things.
Until what point?

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1694 on: October 14, 2022, 12:32:38 PM »
It is not a catchphrase.
When does HUMAN life begin?
In its fullest respects at birth. In lesser respects at either at conception or 40 days. That is Religious Judaisms view, no one (with standing) disagrees with this. Why do you insist on an all or nothing response?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1695 on: October 14, 2022, 12:37:00 PM »
In lesser respects at either at conception or 40 days.
In should be duly noted that while other marks are considered unsubstantiated and for the most part discarded, that is all in the convo in regard to personal Halacha. In other respects, lets say for example when government should be involved, rationalism is warranted IMHO.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1696 on: October 14, 2022, 01:06:46 PM »
In its fullest respects at birth. In lesser respects at either at conception or 40 days. That is Religious Judaisms view, no one (with standing) disagrees with this. Why do you insist on an all or nothing response?
You keep with your pretzels. 99.99% can answer when HUMAN life begins.
Again, I am not asking for your religious views.

You keep acting like we are talking about sub-humans. We are talking about human beings. If you can't answer that simple question, then you should stay out of the abortion debate.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1697 on: October 14, 2022, 01:08:13 PM »
Maybe you conflated my religious beliefs with what I believe should be forced on other? Can that be?
Is this a riddle?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1698 on: October 14, 2022, 01:31:37 PM »
Is this a riddle?
Huh?
You can't answer a simple yes or no question? :P

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1699 on: October 14, 2022, 01:38:29 PM »
Huh?
You can't answer a simple yes or no question? :P
No and no.
See how easy that is.  ::)
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