Poll

Should @countvalentine and @imayid2 stop with there endless bickering

Please yes!
5 (55.6%)
Please no I love it
1 (11.1%)
I don't mind
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: October 17, 2022, 05:07:57 PM

Author Topic: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade  (Read 111429 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1200 on: August 02, 2022, 10:08:11 PM »
...but she was ok with a child with disabilities? You are not being levelheaded.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please elaborate.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1201 on: August 02, 2022, 10:18:49 PM »
I saw an interesting story where a woman’s water broke in her 20th week and Rav Ovadia Yosef did not allow her to abort.
Another story with a woman who’s water broke in her 15th week, and after clarifying with the doctor if she can wait a bit, he advised her to wait.
That case is the same as this one for all practical purposes.
The author writes in the footnotes the following:
Quote
We see here the difference between the way Halacha looks at a situation and the way a doctor looks at it. From an Halachik perspective a woman that loses her amniotic fluid, even if her chances of saving her pregnancy are one in many hundreds, we are required to try and protect the life of the fetus... On the other hand, in the view of the doctor, he says, this woman is suffering, she's going to have to be under constant watch because there is a danger to her life, and the odds are one in a thousand. He comes to a conclusion that it's not worth the effort because hope is so slim.
The doctor is wrong. We are talking about a life, and even if only one in a thousand there is an obligation to try.
Rabbi Yosef was far from a hard liner on abortion!

Offline biobook

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1202 on: August 02, 2022, 10:19:46 PM »
This woman wanted to develop an infection so that she can abort and not have to deal with this situation.

You remind me of another concern that has been expressed in post-Roe times, which is that women who have a natural miscarriage could be accused by some especially aggressive and suspicious DA of having intentionally caused the miscarriage. 

Sometimes a woman has a serious accident, such as falling down a flight of stairs, and the trauma induces a miscarriage.  There's been at least one case where this happened and the woman was subsequently arrested and accused of intentionally falling down the stairs because she wanted to abort.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1203 on: August 02, 2022, 10:20:22 PM »
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Please elaborate.
"We skipped over the genetic testing offered in the first trimester," Elizabeth says. "I was born with a physical disability. If she had any physical ailments, I would never abort her for that issue."

Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1204 on: August 02, 2022, 10:35:07 PM »
"We skipped over the genetic testing offered in the first trimester," Elizabeth says. "I was born with a physical disability. If she had any physical ailments, I would never abort her for that issue."
Who’s not levelheaded? Me or Elizabeth?
Quote
To Elizabeth, termination also felt like the most merciful option for her fetus. Even with the slim chance of survival to 24 weeks, the newborn would face intense physical challenges and aggressive medical interventions.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1205 on: August 02, 2022, 10:37:17 PM »
You remind me of another concern that has been expressed in post-Roe times, which is that women who have a natural miscarriage could be accused by some especially aggressive and suspicious DA of having intentionally caused the miscarriage. 

Sometimes a woman has a serious accident, such as falling down a flight of stairs, and the trauma induces a miscarriage.  There's been at least one case where this happened and the woman was subsequently arrested and accused of intentionally falling down the stairs because she wanted to abort.
What about the women that suffer from being wrongfully accused of harming their children? There have even been people wrongfully executed because of that!
Should infanticide be legal?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1206 on: August 02, 2022, 10:40:34 PM »
Who’s not levelheaded? Me or Elizabeth?
One is a quote, and one is not. Let's be fair here.
If you read the article she is not for abortion and would not abort even if she knew her child would have a disability (in her words). You are letting your views distort hers.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1207 on: August 02, 2022, 10:43:16 PM »

I saw an interesting story where a woman’s water broke in her 20th week and Rav Ovadia Yosef did not allow her to abort.
Another story with a woman who’s water broke in her 15th week, and after clarifying with the doctor if she can wait a bit, he advised her to wait.
That case is the same as this one for all practical purposes.
The author writes in the footnotes the following:Rabbi Yosef was far from a hard liner on abortion!
There's even less medical information in this than in the news article!  I wouldn't say it's the same thing at all.  This woman had 3 leaks, so perhaps these were small and were able to reseal and she retained a lot of the fluid.   The other one had one huge gush in which virtually all the fluid was lost. Also we have no information on what the doctor saw with the ultrasound in either case.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1208 on: August 02, 2022, 10:44:22 PM »
One is a quote, and one is not. Let's be fair here.
If you read the article she is not for abortion and would not abort even if she knew her child would have a disability. You are letting your views distort hers.
Lol. So you’re attacking me for believing what the article says her view in this case is. No problem if it’s not accurate, I retract the part of what I said.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1209 on: August 02, 2022, 10:46:39 PM »
Lol. So you’re attacking me for believing what the article says her view in this case is. No problem if it’s not accurate, I retract the part of what I said.
I am not attacking you. Just defending her. Her views are clear from several of her direct quotes.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1210 on: August 02, 2022, 10:47:42 PM »
There's even less medical information in this than in the news article!  I wouldn't say it's the same thing at all.  This woman had 3 leaks, so perhaps these were small and were able to reseal and she retained a lot of the fluid.   The other one had one huge gush in which virtually all the fluid was lost. Also we have no information on what the doctor saw with the ultrasound in either case.
Without more medical details, I see no reason to think that a Halachik compliant woman would have a different outcome in this case.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1211 on: August 02, 2022, 10:48:35 PM »
I am not attacking you. Just defending her. Her views are clear from several of her direct quotes.
No problem. I completely disagree with her decision not to go under expectant care.

Offline biobook

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1212 on: August 02, 2022, 10:52:03 PM »
What about the women that suffer from being wrongfully accused of harming their children? There have even been people wrongfully executed because of that!

I agree, that's awful. In fact, I was reminded of that when I read your (shocking) accusation:

This woman wanted to develop an infection so that she can abort and not have to deal with this situation.

Quote
Should infanticide be legal?
No one in America supports that.  Why would you ask?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1213 on: August 02, 2022, 10:55:56 PM »
No one in America supports that.  Why would you ask?
Because you sounded like you thought it was a reason abortion should be legal.

Offline CountValentine

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Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half


Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1216 on: August 02, 2022, 11:30:14 PM »
Tragic.
I guess you don't approve of their morals?  ;)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1217 on: August 02, 2022, 11:34:30 PM »
I guess you don't approve of their morals?  ;)
No sir. Not enough Chabad there apparently.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1218 on: August 02, 2022, 11:36:17 PM »
No sir. Not enough Chabad there apparently.
According to the turnout there isn't enough in the whole country that could have made a difference.
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Offline WAM

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1219 on: August 03, 2022, 12:53:55 AM »
if this court didn’t do it, the chances of that happening is roughly equal to your hat tips ;)
-1 == true