Poll

Should @countvalentine and @imayid2 stop with there endless bickering

Please yes!
5 (55.6%)
Please no I love it
1 (11.1%)
I don't mind
3 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: October 17, 2022, 05:07:57 PM

Author Topic: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade  (Read 122676 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1820 on: October 29, 2022, 09:01:29 PM »
Yes
This is confusing for me so help me through.
Is this because you classify as a "free thinking Catholic"?
Like, what do you think the Pope would say if I asked him?
Throughout history the Church was very involved in interpreting various bible passages. My understanding was always that they view it the way I see online. I can't tell if your'e giving me your own personal belief, or you truly believe that that is how the Catholic Church operates.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1821 on: October 29, 2022, 09:18:43 PM »
Is this because you classify as a "free thinking Catholic"?
I have 100% free will as I believe every other human being has.
Read that article you posted and there is what I call a contradiction after contradiction.
Like, what do you think the Pope would say if I asked him?
The word of G-d precedes the Bible and surpasses it.
I am confused when they are crystal clear on abortion what all this is about.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1822 on: October 29, 2022, 09:38:40 PM »
I am confused when they are crystal clear on abortion what all this is about.
Simple curiosity how they interpret this verse which, totally illegitimately IMO, is used as a *proof* that the simple plain meaning is undermining the severity of abortion.
The answer seems to be (found no thanks to you :P) that they understand it based on the Septuagin's translation.

https://catholicstand.com/does-the-bible-condone-abortion/
Quote
1. In Exodus 21:22 it states that if a man causes a woman to have a miscarriage, he shall be fined; however, if the woman dies then he will be put to death. It should be apparent from this that the aborted fetus is not considered a living human being since the resulting punishment for the abortion is nothing more than a fine;it is not classified by the bible as a capital offense.

False. The translation which was linked (The Amplified Bible, produced by the same translators of the New American Standard Bible, the Lockman Foundation) is the only one I can find that uses the word “miscarriage” in this context. (The Amplified Bible was the first version of the Bible produced by the Lockman Foundation, and a later translation, the NASB, does not contain the same translation.)

All other translations I’ve found use the term “premature birth” instead of “miscarriage.” This is no doubt because the standard Hebrew word for miscarriage, used in other Old Testament verses such as Exodus 23:26, is not used in Exodus 21:22. Rather, the word used is one that means “to bring forth life.”

The blog author also makes the assumption that the verse says if only the woman dies, the offender shall be put to death. However, neither the Amplified Bible translation nor any other translation specifically say that it is only if the woman dies, capital punishment is incurred. The verses actually say “if no further harm occurs,” without specifying to whom the harm is directed; i.e., if neither the baby nor the woman die, the offender is let off with a fine, but the offender is put to death if either the child or the woman dies as a result of the attack.

It’s clear that God places an equal value on the life of the mother and the life of the child, and the unborn child is indeed considered “a living human being” since the penalty for causing its death is death for the attacker.

Now Judaism would disagree with that, as outlined here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4366&context=caselrev&httpsredir=1&referer=
page 483

But a fascinating spin on this from Judaism's perspective can be found in Rabbi Bleichs article
https://traditiononline.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Abortion-in-Halakhic.pdf
footnote 39 on page 115.

I have no intent here on trying to *prove* who is correct. Just was trying to find this info.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1823 on: October 29, 2022, 09:50:40 PM »
Simple curiosity how they interpret this verse which, totally illegitimately IMO, is used as a *proof* that the simple plain meaning is undermining the severity of abortion.
Everything in the Bible is not to be taken literally.
This is from the passage you posted:
15 Anyone who strikes father or mother will be put to death.
16 Anyone who abducts a person -- whether that person has since been sold or is still held -- will be put to death.
17 Anyone who curses father or mother will be put to death.

Catholicism does not teach that.
You like to claim things were "abrogated". Passages like these are explained as to be not taken literally (put to death) but to show the seriousness of them.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1824 on: October 29, 2022, 09:52:59 PM »
Everything in the Bible is not to be taken literally. You like to claim things were "abrogated". Passages like these are explained as to be not taken literally (put to death) but to show the seriousness of them.
Source?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1825 on: October 29, 2022, 09:57:35 PM »
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1826 on: October 29, 2022, 10:02:58 PM »
Creation in Seven Days
:)
I have no idea if this is your own spin, or a Church condoned method of interpretation. There seems to be all types of methods but it is too confusing for me to figure out if yours is sanctioned.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1827 on: October 29, 2022, 10:06:04 PM »
:)
I have no idea if this is your own spin, or a Church condoned method of interpretation. There seems to be all types of methods but it is too confusing for me to figure out if yours is sanctioned.
Everything is an interpretation.
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/do-you-read-the-bible-literally.html
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1828 on: October 29, 2022, 10:32:15 PM »
Everything is an interpretation.
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/do-you-read-the-bible-literally.html
This is quite vague.
In regards to the death penalty I'm not seeing your interpretation on any Catholic sites.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-death-penalty-in-the-old-testament
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/11/21/yes-traditional-church-teaching-on-capital-punishment-is-definitive/
and from the history outlined here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_capital_punishment
about their position I have no reason to think that those sites aren't correct. So I'm going to assume you are the outlier.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1829 on: October 29, 2022, 10:47:21 PM »
This is quite vague.
In regards to the death penalty I'm not seeing your interpretation on any Catholic sites.
I love how you assume a site is Catholic. :)
Now you moved on from abortion to the death penalty.
Their position on that has also been made clear. It is not permissible.
I am still confused about your end game.
They are crystal clear on abortion. While some Catholics might not agree with their position everyone understands 100% what that position is.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1830 on: October 29, 2022, 11:24:57 PM »
I love how you assume a site is Catholic. :)
Now you moved on from abortion to the death penalty.
Their position on that has also been made clear. It is not permissible.
I am still confused about your end game.
They are crystal clear on abortion. While some Catholics might not agree with their position everyone understands 100% what that position is.
I have no idea which sites are legitimate. I did ask you earlier…
No end game. Explanation of scriptures is important to me, as well as to many Catholics though they interpret them differently.
I know that they are clear. So is Judaism :) severely prohibited as a rule. Some excruciating exceptions are made. The nature of those exceptions are debated.
Unfortunately there are many befuddled people out this misrepresenting Judaism.

Offline WAM

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1831 on: October 30, 2022, 10:36:18 PM »
Not at all. For a Jewish person wouldn't it be important to know if today is Thursday or Friday?
I was referring to your Friday popcorn post day.

Offline imayid2

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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1833 on: November 03, 2022, 02:08:34 PM »



Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1834 on: November 10, 2022, 12:30:10 PM »
The people have spoken and for the most part have rejected the extremist views!!!
https://news.yahoo.com/abortion-rights-win-at-ballot-box-in-2022-midterms-173202418.html
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1835 on: November 10, 2022, 01:48:52 PM »
The people have spoken and for the most part have rejected the extremist views!!!
https://news.yahoo.com/abortion-rights-win-at-ballot-box-in-2022-midterms-173202418.html
*Extremist* views like protections for babies born alive in botched abortions. Tell us about it.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1836 on: November 10, 2022, 01:49:56 PM »
*Extremist* views like protections for babies born alive in botched abortions. Tell us about it.
The people have spoken. That says it all.


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Offline imayid2

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1837 on: November 10, 2022, 01:52:29 PM »
Perhaps the people are the extremists?
Haven’t seen him in a while. Glad he’s ok. :)

Offline Lamppost

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1838 on: November 10, 2022, 05:23:01 PM »
The people have spoken. That says it all.



You think its ok or moral to kill a live baby?

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Re: Supreme Court Will Strike Down Roe v Wade
« Reply #1839 on: November 10, 2022, 06:10:18 PM »
You think its ok or moral to kill a live baby?
No I didn't beat my wife today.
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