Author Topic: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022  (Read 19644 times)

Online YitzyS

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #100 on: May 18, 2022, 12:13:40 PM »
@YitzyS you were the last one I thought would pull the shmad card
I am NOT saying that if I was a posek making this decision I would declare it a shaas hashmad. But I don't think it is unreasonable for a real posek with rock-solid hashkafos (like the Bais Din of the Eidah) to come to that conclusion.

I'm just trying to add this perspective, because many here (and everywhere) have expressed amazement that they would be willing to flout (not flaunt, thank you) the safety rules imposed by the government just one year after a terrible tragedy.

Again, I don't necessarily think it's the case. But I think it's food for thought.

Offline DealJew

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #101 on: May 18, 2022, 12:14:29 PM »
If anyone has tickets for tonight that they wanna sell please PM me.
PM me for airline compensation help. Your case is not lost!

Offline JlmBoi

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The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #103 on: May 18, 2022, 12:16:00 PM »
Many disagree. Overall, the Brisker belief is that a primary goal of the Zionist government is to destroy yiddishkeit, and they use their power to try to make frum people stop doing mitzvos. I don't know if the Eidah's shittos are the same, but I know they are somewhat aligned.

IDK about Brisk or Eidoh. But Zionism in it's essence is about destroying Yiddishkeit by saying נהיה ככל הגוים בית ישראל and כוחי ועוצם ידי, rather than אין אומתנו אומה אלא בתורתיה and עזרי מעם ה' עושה שמים וארץ.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline TimT

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #104 on: May 18, 2022, 12:23:29 PM »
Again, I don't necessarily think it's the case. But I think it's food for thought.
Never knew you were such a shtarker Brisker.

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2022, 12:28:23 PM »
.
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

Online YitzyS

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #106 on: May 18, 2022, 12:28:55 PM »
Never knew you were such a shtarker Brisker.
Just because I am suggesting a way to understand the Eidah, does that mean I'm "such a shtarker Brisker"? (Not that I dislike that title. I just don't think I'm worthy of it.)

Are you a far-left liberal just because you know all the search results of Google?  :P

Offline Happyguy

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2022, 12:33:35 PM »
. http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/62851b7007b5c/e0dd7147c78549f596f42cf2ad024f4d.mp4
Stam a video or is it implying anything sinister that these people managed to get in?

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2022, 12:34:11 PM »
Stam a video or is it implying anything sinister that these people managed to get in?
No just better than the yelling that was happening before.
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

Offline TimT

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2022, 12:37:52 PM »
Just because I am suggesting a way to understand the Eidah, does that mean I'm "such a shtarker Brisker"? (Not that I dislike that title. I just don't think I'm worthy of it.)

Are you a far-left liberal just because you know all the search results of Google?  :P
If youíre thinking up סברות that even the eida & Brisk didnít, wellÖ.

Online YitzyS

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2022, 12:39:35 PM »
If youíre thinking up סברות that even the eida & Brisk didnít, wellÖ.
What makes you say with certainty that they didn't think of this?

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #111 on: May 18, 2022, 12:47:22 PM »
Most shittos say that in a shas hashmad, even a minhag becomes yeharog ve'al yaavor.

Chilling choice of words in this context RĒL
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Online YitzyS

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #112 on: May 18, 2022, 12:55:09 PM »
Chilling choice of words in this context RĒL
When someone dies because he is halachically mandated to do so, it may be tragic that he couldn't live more years, but it is the greatest Kiddush Hashem possible.

Offline TimT

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #113 on: May 18, 2022, 01:10:18 PM »
What makes you say with certainty that they didn't think of this?
(NOTE: I did not hear this angle from the Eidah, or from anyone else. It's just my thoughts.)

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #114 on: May 18, 2022, 01:27:16 PM »
I am NOT saying that if I was a posek making this decision I would declare it a shaas hashmad. But I don't think it is unreasonable for a real posek with rock-solid hashkafos (like the Bais Din of the Eidah) to come to that conclusion.

I'm just trying to add this perspective, because many here (and everywhere) have expressed amazement that they would be willing to flout (not flaunt, thank you) the safety rules imposed by the government just one year after a terrible tragedy.

Again, I don't necessarily think it's the case. But I think it's food for thought.
You're horribly misapplying shas hashmad and yaharog v'al yaavor here. In shas hashmad you keep your minhagim even if 'they' will kill you because of it. This is a situation where the minhag may kill you, not 'them'.

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2022, 01:28:54 PM »
You're horribly misapplying shas hashmad and yaharog v'al yaavor here. In shas hashmad you keep your minhagim even if 'they' will kill you because of it. This is a situation where the minhag may kill you, not 'them'.

Yup, I canít see how this is similar to the red shoelace. It might very well be a שב ואל תעשה עדיף.

One might argue that whatís happening in Meron could set a precedent, but thatís not the same as שעת השמד FWIU
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Offline Happyguy

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2022, 01:38:02 PM »
Yup, I canít see how this is similar to the red shoelace. It might very well be a שב ואל תעשה עדיף.

One might argue that whatís happening in Meron could set a precedent, but thatís not the same as שעת השמד FWIU



One count counter that in this case שב ואל תעשה is making a statement that one agrees with their actions. What does destroying shuls have to do with safety?

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2022, 01:54:03 PM »
You're horribly misapplying shas hashmad and yaharog v'al yaavor here. In shas hashmad you keep your minhagim even if 'they' will kill you because of it. This is a situation where the minhag may kill you, not 'them'.
Yup, I canít see how this is similar to the red shoelace. It might very well be a שב ואל תעשה עדיף.

One might argue that whatís happening in Meron could set a precedent, but thatís not the same as שעת השמד FWIU
I agree that the case is not completely comparable, as the direct threat of death is not coming from the Zionist, but from flooding the mountain. But I think it may still fall under the same halachic directive, to stand up for a minhag when there are those trying to undermine it, even at a threat to personal safety.

I don't want to go in circles here, especially because I don't necessarily agree with the thing I am saying. I merely put it out there as a possible perspective for what the Eidah is doing, though the Eidah does not need me to defend them.

I am not interested in just rehashing this, though I'll try to respond if anyone feels compelled to ask something.

Offline TimT

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2022, 02:02:52 PM »
though I'll try to respond if anyone feels compelled to ask something.
start here :)
because I don't necessarily agree with the thing I am saying.

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Re: Lag Baomer in Meron 2022
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2022, 02:14:02 PM »
Somehow I feel like the Chasam Sofer, for example, would laugh you out the door.