Parental support

[ckmk47]

Expenses can be lumpy from month-to-month. Do supporting parents usually provide a steady amount monthly? or more like 6-months worth of support semi-annually, so the couple can manage through the month-to-month variability. (I suppose if the couple has some savings that can use that to handle the variability).

Much safer for the couple if it's given monthly.  They have no experience running a household and budgeting.  If they misspend, they'll be 'saved' within a month.

[yelped]

Why aren't the wedding costs split evenly? (Not just in Frum circles)

Sounds like Chassidim are ahead of the curve here, too. No expectations of "support" and all wedding expenses are shared 50/50 (tbh, that's not 100% accurate as the girl's side costs much more (gowns, basic outfitting of house (dishes, untensils, pots), but the wedding night itself and any other shared expenses are split).

[jye]

Sounds like Chassidim are ahead of the curve here, too. No expectations of "support" and all wedding expenses are shared 50/50 (tbh, that's not 100% accurate as the girl's side costs much more (gowns, basic outfitting of house (dishes, untensils, pots), but the wedding night itself and any other shared expenses are split).

The concept of long term kollel is practically non existent by most chassidim. If the litvishe went out to work shana rishona the whole support issue would be moot. Our system prioritizes learning and kollel. Hence the support issue.

[ExGingi]

The concept of long term kollel is practically non existent by most chassidim. If the litvishe went out to work shana rishona the whole support issue would be moot. Our system prioritizes learning and kollel. Hence the support issue.

In Lubavitch many (most?) go to kollel for the first year, but I think the support is very limited (50/50 on wedding night expenses as well as first month rent, security deposit, and furnishing the apartment).

[Definitions]

Softball question - why can't support be split between both sides?

I can't think of any good reason. It makes me question the beliefs of the people requesting it. If it's something that both sides want why is one side more responsible. Forget about responsible why isn't the requesting side excited to offer to support as much as they can. Why are they expecting someone else to not learn more than themselves? Why aren't they jumping for the opportunity to get part of the zechus?

I don't think it has anything to do with the imbalanced "market".

Because the kollel model is a Yissachar Zevulun marriage partnership (oversimplification, and each marriage has its own structure and split up, but general idea). The boy learns, and the girl facilitates the financial aspect. The girls parents are helping her out to enable that, being as they and she want a learning guy. (If their mindset is that parnassa is the boy's problem, then there are plenty of guys that are making a parnassa. The ones supporting would generally say no to such a guy.)

The boys parents don't want their son to learn?

[EliJelly]

The concept of long term kollel is practically non existent by most chassidim. If the litvishe went out to work shana rishona the whole support issue would be moot. Our system prioritizes learning and kollel. Hence the support issue.

You need to get out more. The concept of longer Kollel is VERY prevalent amongst chassidim nowedays, just take a look at the numerous packed kollelim all over in all kehillos/chassidos, first few years in kollel is basically the norm for every good learning boy and not only for the big Lomdim. Even parental support for the kollel couple is very common.

The distinction lies with the fact that amongst chassidim there is no across the board - almost mandatory system that parents must support their married children, let alone of having that burden assigned solely to the girls side. The wife's salary with his kollel checks (not just after 3 years and more than $300 per month) together with whatever the parents throw in keeps them going. Usually if there is a wealthier parent he will take that burden (I should say Zchiya) upon himself. Then there is those real wealthy ones who who will commit themselves for full support plus an apartment etc. in order to get that top boy but that is by no means the standard, nor does it create a system for the middle class to follow.

Honestly, it's to the Litvaks credit that chassidim copied their Kolel model and it is very commendable, but I see it as positive that they did not incorporate the mandatory girl's side support system.

[ckmk47]

Softball question - why can't support be split between both sides?

I'm not in these circles, but I was under the impression from acquaintances that  support was shared.  Not necessarily 50/50, but both sides commit specific parts of the couple's upkeep.  car, rent, etc.

[drosenberg88429]

Winds of change are blowing. I was one of those sons-in-law who went into marriage with zero expectations and I'm seeing more and more people do it.

I had an accounting degree under my belt when I was 22, got engaged and married at 23. My wife wanted me to learn for a year, so she worked a low-paying job in education and my parents and in-laws helped equally, and I studied for the CPA in the evenings. I started working 13 months later at age 24, CPA under my belt and BH haven't needed the support since then. While they never will admit it, I know my in-laws are very relieved that they never need to spend anything on us (and they barely do - because they aren't really able to).

It's a matter of being honest with oneself. Some people should be supported, but I find the expectation for everyone to be a bit overboard.

This screenshot is from a shidduchim discussion status. Pretty clear synopsis of why support model exists the way it does and there aren't more people like you.

[yerushabubby]

Expenses can be lumpy from month-to-month. Do supporting parents usually provide a steady amount monthly? or more like 6-months worth of support semi-annually, so the couple can manage through the month-to-month variability. (I suppose if the couple has some savings that can use that to handle the variability).

We pay the rent directly to the landlord - either each side pays every other month, or they each pay half of each month. 

[aygart]

Expenses can be lumpy from month-to-month. Do supporting parents usually provide a steady amount monthly? or more like 6-months worth of support semi-annually, so the couple can manage through the month-to-month variability. (I suppose if the couple has some savings that can use that to handle the variability).

Salaries are typically monthly or weekly or something in the middle so learning to deal with that may be a good thing

[S209]

Sounds like Chassidim are ahead of the curve here, too. No expectations of "support" and all wedding expenses are shared 50/50 (tbh, that's not 100% accurate as the girl's side costs much more (gowns, basic outfitting of house (dishes, untensils, pots), but the wedding night itself and any other shared expenses are split).

To be fair I think the “upfront” costs by Chasidim (super expensive furniture, shtreimlach, gowns, very expensive accessories and clothing) is nearly equal to a couple years support by the Litvish. This is based on my circle of recently wed Chasidishe acquaintances, I acknowledge it may not be universal.

[yelped]

To be fair I think the “upfront” costs by Chasidim (super expensive furniture, shtreimlach, gowns, very expensive accessories and clothing) is nearly equal to a couple years support by the Litvish. This is based on my circle of recently wed Chasidishe acquaintances, I acknowledge it may not be universal.

Only the very Chassidesh/Satmarish do full "Shtafir".

We did not get any furniture, my shtreimel did not cost more than 2 Barsilinos etc. But most couples do get some sort of furniture. We figured we'd rather save up for a down payment and then decide what furniture we want. We lived in a furnished basement for a while.

[YesThatsMe]

Only the very Chassidesh/Satmarish do full "Shtafir".

We did not get any furniture, my shtreimel did not cost more than 2 Barsilinos etc. But most couples do get some sort of furniture. We figured we'd rather save up for a down payment and then decide what furniture we want. We lived in a furnished basement for a while.

Your Shtreimel didn't cost more than 2 Borsalinos? I have a hard time believing that (unless you got your wedding Shtreimel in Bingo)

So called "Chosson Shtreimlach" these days (usually peddled by "agents" or חבר מביא חבר) go for $5,500+ at Miller/Krausz/Lerner and are purchased by a large majority of Chassanim, despite years of efforts from Vaad's and Rebbe's etc (who themselves wear such Shreimels)

[yesitsme]

Your Shtreimel didn't cost more than 2 Borsalinos? I have a hard time believing that (unless you got your wedding Shtreimel in Bingo)

So called "Chosson Shtreimlach" these days (usually peddled by "agents" or חבר מביא חבר) go for $5,500+ at Miller/Krausz/Lerner and are purchased by a large majority of Chassanim, despite years of efforts from Vaad's and Rebbe's etc (who themselves wear such Shreimels)

and many get married with a mechutan shtreimal too, statistisc show that the divorce rate by those with mechutan shtreimal are not greater then those with Chosson Shtreimlach

[drosenberg88429]

I don't think it has anything to do with the imbalanced "market". The boys parents don't want their son to learn?

The boy is the Yissachar, the girl is the Zevulun. She's in charge of facilitating the finances for the learning to be feasible. The parents are helping her supplement this income burden she's taking on.

[yesitsme]

The boy is the Yissachar, the girl is the Zevulun. She's in charge of facilitating the finances for the learning to be feasible. The parents are helping her supplement this income burden she's taking on.

The ksuba is really out of touch, it describes her responsibilities as if it's his

[YesThatsMe]

and many get married with a mechutan shtreimal too, statistisc show that the divorce rate by those with mechutan shtreimal are not greater then those with Chosson Shtreimlach

Not many, you don't go to weddings often enough

[aygart]

Not many, you don't go to weddings often enough

I guess they realize which type it is before the wedding already

On a side note, when replying to @yesitsme it should be @NoTHATSme

[JlmBoi]

Your Shtreimel didn't cost more than 2 Borsalinos? I have a hard time believing that (unless you got your wedding Shtreimel in Bingo)

So called "Chosson Shtreimlach" these days (usually peddled by "agents" or חבר מביא חבר) go for $5,500+ at Miller/Krausz/Lerner and are purchased by a large majority of Chassanim, despite years of efforts from Vaad's and Rebbe's etc (who themselves wear such Shreimels)

In my day 4k was the higher end even for more well to do people, there were always the crazies that spent up to 6. For 5.5 to be average is crazy.
Israeli style streimels (that I profess to despising) were always much cheaper.

[jye]

Data point: Friend who is kollel/ kli kodesh recently married off daughter age 21/22. Fairly modest low end kollel lifestyle. First daughter a couple years ago was just over 1k support.  He made the rounds and was told the standard has gone up recently and 1500 for 5 years is very typical. This despite his daughter earning a decent parnassa and coming into the marriage with almost 100k in savings.