Parental support

[dasmo801]

Boys side will often ask if the support is coming from the girls earnings or the parents pockets.

I hate being that guy who is always nitpicking but words mean things. "Often" means "many times". I'm not doubting that you are aware of many times that this conversation took place but as a data point I just want to add, I am 1 of 13, my wife is 1 of 7. In exactly 0 out of those 20 shidduchim did that conversation happen. And I just checked with three siblings who have a combined 8 children married and they confirmed that such a question was never asked (with one adding that had someone asked that it probably would have spelled the end of that shidduch.)

[EliJelly]

I hate being that guy who is always nitpicking but words mean things. "Often" means "many times". I'm not doubting that you are aware of many times that this conversation took place but as a data point I just want to add, I am 1 of 13, my wife is 1 of 7. In exactly 0 out of those 20 shidduchim did that conversation happen. And I just checked with three siblings who have a combined 8 children married and they confirmed that such a question was never asked (with one adding that had someone asked that it probably would have spelled the end of that shidduch.)

נחמתנו. That was a whole new level.

[jye]

Cringeworthy

Yes and no. If the boys side is told the girl has had a well paying job for several years and the family is also offering support it wouldn’t be fair to find out later that the two were really one and the same. I had a friend who knew he was marrying a girl with no support but had a decent job. She was well into her low twenties. During sheva beracha she found out that the girls mother had put the entire wedding shower, furniture, some wedding expenses, and other things she had furnished on the girls credit card, leaving the couple with $1500 in her account and the months rent coming up. Not a great way to start off.

[drosenberg88429]

נחמתנו. That was a whole new level.

It's not good to believe everything we read on the Internet. Occasionally, it has happened that there are inaccuracies and exaggerations.

[jye]

I hate being that guy who is always nitpicking but words mean things. "Often" means "many times". I'm not doubting that you are aware of many times that this conversation took place but as a data point I just want to add, I am 1 of 13, my wife is 1 of 7. In exactly 0 out of those 20 shidduchim did that conversation happen. And I just checked with three siblings who have a combined 8 children married and they confirmed that such a question was never asked (with one adding that had someone asked that it probably would have spelled the end of that shidduch.)

Should not have used the word often. I have heard of it enough to know it isn’t an aberration and have actually been privy to something close to it on one attempt at making a shidduch but can’t attest to it being often. Judging from the people I’ve heard it from, my guess is that it would really depend on the circumstances. For a girl fresh out of seminary it obviously isn’t relevant. A shadchan or close friend who can assure the parents that the girls family took care of their other shidduchim would probably also obviate the question. Same goes for parents who obviously have means.

If the girl is one of 12 in a chinuch family without well to do grandparents and the parents are promising support that would be more likely to have the parents second guessing.

[ckmk47]

Yes and no. If the boys side is told the girl has had a well paying job for several years and the family is also offering support it wouldn’t be fair to find out later that the two were really one and the same. I had a friend who knew he was marrying a girl with no support but had a decent job. She was well into her low twenties. During sheva beracha she found out that the girls mother had put the entire wedding shower, furniture, some wedding expenses, and other things she had furnished on the girls credit card, leaving the couple with $1500 in her account and the months rent coming up. Not a great way to start off.

Our young couples should communicate about delicate topics even before they are married.
Him: Since we're not getting parental support, what is our budget going to look like?
(I have no savings except the $500 I made in camp. Do you have savings?  )
I have no income presently.  Should I look into tutoring? Picking up seasonal jobs?
What is your take home pay?
What are your expense priorities?  Mine are food, rent.  (And I need to buy thousands of dollars of sefarim each month  )
What price range apartment: location vs size vs price?


Her: My job pays X.  Rents are in the XX range.  That leaves us with a surplus of X. 
From my research, we can/ cannot quite live on that.
We have / don't have a cushion of approximately X in my savings.  Do you have savings?
Are there expenses that you can think of that we'll need to cover in the first year of marriage?

[jye]

Our young couples should communicate about delicate topics even before they are married.
Him: Since we're not getting parental support, what is our budget going to look like?
(I have no savings except the $500 I made in camp. Do you have savings?  )
I have no income presently.  Should I look into tutoring? Picking up seasonal jobs?
What is your take home pay?
What are your expense priorities?  Mine are food, rent.  (And I need to buy thousands of dollars of sefarim each month  )
What price range apartment: location vs size vs price?



Her: My job pays X.  Rents are in the XX range.  That leaves us with a surplus of X. 
From my research, we can/ cannot quite live on that.
We have / don't have a cushion of approximately X in my savings.  Do you have savings?
Are there expenses that you can think of that we'll need to cover in the first year of marriage?

Probably would end up in a lot more broken engagements if the chosson kallah start hashing out all the nitty gritty before the wedding although in theory it would make sense. It would also be a backstop to her parents trying to drain her account to pay for the wedding expenses.
“Malkie, didn’t it say 56,000 last week when we worked out all of our future income streams and budget? Why is it showing $46.50 left in your account?!!

[drosenberg88429]

Our young couples should communicate about delicate topics even before they are married.
Him: Since we're not getting parental support, what is our budget going to look like?
(I have no savings except the $500 I made in camp. Do you have savings?  )
I have no income presently.  Should I look into tutoring? Picking up seasonal jobs?
What is your take home pay?
What are your expense priorities?  Mine are food, rent.  (And I need to buy thousands of dollars of sefarim each month  )
What price range apartment: location vs size vs price?


Her: My job pays X.  Rents are in the XX range.  That leaves us with a surplus of X. 
From my research, we can/ cannot quite live on that.
We have / don't have a cushion of approximately X in my savings.  Do you have savings?
Are there expenses that you can think of that we'll need to cover in the first year of marriage?

Maybe this should be discussed before they even go out, and spare people from the heartache of realizing that they're on radically different pages.

In fact, in many circles, this is discussed before they go out.

That's what this thread is about.

[ari3]

Yes and no. If the boys side is told the girl has had a well paying job for several years and the family is also offering support it wouldn’t be fair to find out later that the two were really one and the same. I had a friend who knew he was marrying a girl with no support but had a decent job. She was well into her low twenties. During sheva beracha she found out that the girls mother had put the entire wedding shower, furniture, some wedding expenses, and other things she had furnished on the girls credit card, leaving the couple with $1500 in her account and the months rent coming up. Not a great way to start off.

I don't know why you feel a need to highlight the horror stories and make them sound like they are the norm. The vast majority of people who ask about support do so in a respectful and reasonable manner.

Nor do they say the daughter has a well paying job and support and then go on to saddle the girl with thousands of CC debt.

[ari3]

Our young couples should communicate about delicate topics even before they are married.
Him: Since we're not getting parental support, what is our budget going to look like?
(I have no savings except the $500 I made in camp. Do you have savings?  )
I have no income presently.  Should I look into tutoring? Picking up seasonal jobs?
What is your take home pay?
What are your expense priorities?  Mine are food, rent.  (And I need to buy thousands of dollars of sefarim each month  )
What price range apartment: location vs size vs price?


Her: My job pays X.  Rents are in the XX range.  That leaves us with a surplus of X. 
From my research, we can/ cannot quite live on that.
We have / don't have a cushion of approximately X in my savings.  Do you have savings?
Are there expenses that you can think of that we'll need to cover in the first year of marriage?

Sounds like a very romantic conversation.

[drosenberg88429]

Sounds like a very romantic conversation.

Most people that I know have pretty practical and purposeful conversations while dating, and certainly while engaged. It's not all roses and lace.

[yerushabubby]

Source?

Not sure - only that this is what I have always been taught.

(I remember someone quoting a source for it in a shiur, but don't remember who it was, or what the source is.)

[EliJelly]

Not sure - only that this is what I have always been taught.

(I remember someone quoting a source for it in a shiur, but don't remember who it was, or what the source is.)

חו׳׳מ סי׳ ער ס׳׳ב ברמ׳׳א

[zh cohen]

חו׳׳מ סי׳ ער ס׳׳ב ברמ׳׳א

Thank you.

[ExGingi]

What is a normal monthly amount to give a seminary girl for spending money (excluding public transportation - which is on my Rav Kav and CC)?

[shwarmabob]

What is a normal monthly amount to give a seminary girl for spending money (excluding public transportation - which is on my Rav Kav and CC)?

Depends how good or bad the food is in sem or maybe there is no food on certain days.
In my experience they go out to eat to socialize a lot more than boys. Even if it's salad or ice cream it adds up lol.

[yeshivabucher]

What is a normal monthly amount to give a seminary girl for spending money (excluding public transportation - which is on my Rav Kav and CC)?

does she have money saved up? did you give her spending money in America?

[ExGingi]

Depends how good or bad the food is in sem or maybe there is no food on certain days.
In my experience they go out to eat to socialize a lot more than boys. Even if it's salad or ice cream it adds up lol.

Can you put a figure on it? FWIW I am talking about Tzfas, not JLM.

[JMHO]

Has she asked for an amount or general idea?

[drosenberg88429]

What is a normal monthly amount to give a seminary girl for spending money (excluding public transportation - which is on my Rav Kav and CC)?

When I was in Israel as a boy, I found that I would spend about $10 a day on food, and that was being pretty cheap (but buying prepared food or instant food, not having access to proper kitchen I considered kosher or economies of scale). I'd guess female standards are higher. I would say $100 a week should cover basic food a couple times a week, very basic toiletries, and basic hostess gifts for shabbos. (Also, my notions are based on Jerusalem pricing - Tzfas may be 25% more easily.)

As others mentioned, it's not uncommon for girls to cover their own personal spending in seminary using savings accumulated from working summers, babysitting, etc. It teaches a concept of budgeting and personal responsibility, good skills to learn before marriage. However, that wasn't your question, and is up to your personal chinuch approach and reasoning, not for me to mix in to.