Author Topic: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer  (Read 8364 times)

Offline Dawie

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Offline Dan

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 08:52:06 PM »
FYI
https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/international-dateline/
Seems like these flights don't hit sunset, so he should be OK, no?
He davens Thursday shacharis before departure and Thursday mincha after landing.

He's leaving on 40 omer and arriving on 40 omer.



JAL table:
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 08:56:11 PM »
Precisely
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 09:30:52 PM »
Seems like these flights don't hit sunset, so he should be OK, no?
He davens Thursday shacharis before departure and Thursday mincha after landing.

He's leaving on 40 omer and arriving on 40 omer.



JAL table:

Precisely
Not necessarily
AYLOR

Edit:
You're not landing on the same day you took off.

Just like when you fly from JFK-SVO in the summer. The sun doesn't set but you still land the next day. I don't think you'll find a Rabbi who understands the concept who will absolve you from the extra 3 Tefillos and hence the additional day in the Omer.

Been there done that, but in my case, we flew both ways. The first Rabbi I spoke to didn't get the concept and thought I would be a day off, because on the return flight the sun didn't set, then I found a Rabbi who understood the concept.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:36:12 PM by MeirS »

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 09:52:44 PM »
Not necessarily
AYLOR

Edit:
You're not landing on the same day you took off.

Just like when you fly from JFK-SVO in the summer. The sun doesn't set but you still land the next day. I don't think you'll find a Rabbi who understands the concept who will absolve you from the extra 3 Tefillos and hence the additional day in the Omer.

Been there done that, but in my case, we flew both ways. The first Rabbi I spoke to didn't get the concept and thought I would be a day off, because on the return flight the sun didn't set, then I found a Rabbi who understood the concept.


So how does that affect omer/shavuos?

@dirah
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 09:57:30 PM »


So how does that affect omer/shavuos?

@dirah

Crossed the dateline one way or round trip?

Chabad opinion or non Chabad opinion?

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 10:08:01 PM »
Crossed the dateline one way or round trip?

Chabad opinion or non Chabad opinion?
I mean, I guess I've always thought of it in terms of going through a night on the plane or skipping a day, as opposed to this scenario.

So how would this affect sefira? What do you count when you land and that night?
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Offline dirah

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 10:11:11 PM »
Seems like these flights don't hit sunset, so he should be OK, no?
He davens Thursday shacharis before departure and Thursday mincha after landing.

He's leaving on 40 omer and arriving on 40 omer.



JAL table:


These flights fly against the sun. This means there will be day-night-day in quicker succession than usual. The only reason you are landing at JFK on same weekday is due to crossing the dateline. Thus, were you to take such a flight, there would be night along with Maariv and Sefiras Haomer mid-flight. When arriving in JFK, your Sefirah count would be one day ahead of the locals.

I can’t account for the Zmanim chart you posted above. Perhaps it is assuming a polar route. But recently flights are not flying that North (perhaps due to Russia/Ukraine ban). Based on recent flight paths you would definitely have night in the middle.

JAL #6 recent flight paths: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL6
ANA #110 recent flight paths: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL6

[PS. Even if the flight did fly in the Arctic Circle, the absence of dark does not necessarily mean there is no night. But that's a separate discussion.]
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 10:37:18 PM by dirah »

Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 10:30:32 PM »
I mean, I guess I've always thought of it in terms of going through a night on the plane or skipping a day, as opposed to this scenario.

So how would this affect sefira? What do you count when you land and that night?

Using this years numbers, if you count 40 on Wednesday evening in Japan, and departe Thursday morning for the US, once you are certain it's the "next day" local time (midnight local maybe?) or any time before the sun sets on Thursday in the US, you would count 41 (without a Berocho since it's not night). On Thursday evening you would count 42 while all locals are still counting 41. The next Thursday evening you would count 49 whilst everyone is counting 48. Friday night would be Chag Hashavuos (although not Zman Matan Torah) and Monday would be a weekday with Tefillin and weekday Tefilos although probably Osur Bimelacha in public and private due to Maris Ayin.
JMHO

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2022, 10:37:44 PM »
@dirah thank you. I was assuming I'll be in daylight the entire flight, which means one loooong day and no issues with omer - but you're saying otherwise.

I'll keep my eye out the window and daven accordingly if needed, and then ask my LOR when I get back.
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2022, 12:45:48 AM »
@dirah thank you. I was assuming I'll be in daylight the entire flight, which means one loooong day and no issues with omer - but you're saying otherwise.

I'll keep my eye out the window and daven accordingly if needed, and then ask my LOR when I get back.
You won't see anything out of the window. It'll be light the whole time.
You can try to go by the "local time" if the live map has that feature. Otherwise, myzmanim.com/airreport.aspx has an "air report" feature which I find very comprehensive. (You'll need to log in with a free account and they'll send you the info by email).

Offline Dan

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 09:32:24 AM »
You won't see anything out of the window. It'll be light the whole time.
You can try to go by the "local time" if the live map has that feature. Otherwise, myzmanim.com/airreport.aspx has an "air report" feature which I find very comprehensive. (You'll need to log in with a free account and they'll send you the info by email).
I'd say it got dark:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja742j#2bff982d
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2022, 11:09:42 AM »
I'd say it got dark:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja742j#2bff982d
Then it's a lot simpler I would think. Thursday night in Japan was clearly 41. What's Thursday night in NY then?

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2022, 11:56:40 AM »
Then it's a lot simpler I would think. Thursday night in Japan was clearly 41. What's Thursday night in NY then?
42.
And if he becomes Chabad, potentially he turns a 3 day YT into 2 :D
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2022, 12:01:33 PM »
JFK

Will update with what my LOR says.
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2022, 12:15:40 PM »
JFK

Will update with what my LOR says.
Did it get dark?

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2022, 12:37:21 PM »
Did it get dark?

I slept most of the flight lol

But we certainly flew through a night.
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Offline farmbochur

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2022, 12:56:39 PM »
42.
And if he becomes Chabad, potentially he turns a 3 day YT into 2 :D
Might as well spend yt in tlv to trim that down to 1
Risk is opportunity

Offline Dan

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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2022, 01:00:59 PM »
Might as well spend yt in tlv to trim that down to 1
Fishy only goes to TLV for connecting flights.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 02:10:53 PM by Dan »
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Re: Flying Over The Dateline During Sefiras Ha'Omer
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2022, 09:33:36 AM »
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