Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"

[Moshe123]

Reb Shaul condemning a minor provocation from his side apparently this week. Ball is in the other court. Gerrer Rebbe is also allowed to apologize.

https://twitter.com/AryeErlich/status/1535245942059941888

[WAM]

Don't think anybody considers the Gerrer Rebbe a Talmid chacham.

Don't see what value this adds to the discussion.

[yesitsme]

Don't see what value this adds to the discussion.

context

[EliJelly]

Reb Shaul in LA visited YOEC and gave a speech.

Rosh Yeshiva Reb Ezra Schochet bagleiting him out.

[JlmBoi]

I think that bringing up this issue wherever possible is extremely positive. Gerer chasidim need as much support and courage as they can get to either jump ship, or make a a meaningful protest from the inside. There are thousands and thousands of people that are dying iside as they watch their children being educated by a system that preaches ridiculous and destructive values, and teaches that the right way to enforce these is with violence. Without support nothing will happen and what lead to this tragedy will be perpetuated. Look how much damage Putin is doing to Russia, yet noone can tell him, Mr Putin, this just isn't working.
Making this a issue is sticking up for Gerrer chasidim more than it is sticking up for RSAs chasidim.

https://twitter.com/moshe_nayes/status/1534979974196867074

More are speaking up. Mainstream Rabbanim of Minchas Yitzchak, including Belz.

Sadly, a few of the Rabonim were pressured and pulled out.

[AsherO]

There are thousands and thousands of people that are dying iside as they watch their children being educated by a system that preaches ridiculous and destructive values, and teaches that the right way to enforce these is with violence.

This verbiage is disturbing. Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to follow the RY feels this way? What’s your source?

[yelped]

This verbiage is disturbing. Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to follow the RY feels this way? What’s your source?

Do you think a Gerrer would move over to R'Shaul because he knows how to learn better? Are you familiar with Ger?

[Moshe Green]

...Look how much damage Putin is doing to Russia, yet noone can tell him, Mr Putin, this just isn't working.
Making this a issue is sticking up for Gerrer chasidim more than it is sticking up for RSAs chasidim.

here, i'll do it now so we can cut the slow build up.

The Gerrer Rebbe=Hitler

its really enough.

Will the moderators please delete this whole thread and cut out all the Loshon Hara, Rechilus, Lies, Bizui Talmidei Chacham, and all the other negative things that come out of many people who don't know the situation demonizing one side.

[Yehuda57]

here, i'll do it now so we can cut the slow build up.

The Gerrer Rebbe=Hitler

its really enough.

Will the moderators please delete this whole thread and cut out all the Loshon Hara, Rechilus, Lies, Bizui Talmidei Chacham, and all the other negative things that come out of many people who don't know the situation demonizing one side.

A lack of reading comprehension on your part does not impute a nazi comparison on another's

[JlmBoi]

This verbiage is disturbing. Are you suggesting that anyone who wants to follow the RY feels this way? What’s your source?

How would you describe a educational system that straight out says the Rebbe is G-d and that anyone that is born into Ger can never leave and be a erliche yid, and the way to enforce that is by convincing kids to leave their families and couples to divorce?
That's just the issues pertaining to the current events. Im not saying anything personal about anyone... You can decide to put the blame wherever you want or not at all. That part doesnt matter. What matters is to help people be able to make healthy choices for their families and prevent as much צער and מחלוקת as possible.
I can't tell you exactly what people leaving and joining the RY are feeling, but I can tell you it's a huge leap to take with major consequences, and noone is making it for a דרך הלימוד or something like that.

You don't really deserve a response to this stupidity but il give you two things to think about.
1. Seeing this as a blame game is a huge mistake and doesn't get anyone anywhere.
2. There are thousands of innocent people on both sides whose entire lives have been uprooted and who have gone through major upheaval in the last few years. They deserve every yid advocating for them load and clear. Terror is unacceptable.

[Yehuda57]

How would you describe a educational system that straight out says the Rebbe is G-d and that anyone that is born into Ger can never leave and be a erliche yid, and the way to enforce that is by convincing kids to leave their families and couples to divorce?

As someone belonging to a sect where such wild and baseless allegations are thrown at it willy-nilly, got anything to back you up on that? I'll admit to being pretty clueless on the subject

[ExGingi]

How would you describe a educational system that straight out says the Rebbe is G-d and that anyone that is born into Ger can never leave and be a erliche yid, and the way to enforce that is by convincing kids to leave their families and couples to divorce?
That's just the issues pertaining to the current events. Im not saying anything personal about anyone... You can decide to put the blame wherever you want or not at all. That part doesnt matter. What matters is to help people be able to make healthy choices for their families and prevent as much צער and מחלוקת as possible.
I can't tell you exactly what people leaving and joining the RY are feeling, but I can tell you it's a huge leap to take with major consequences, and noone is making it for a דרך הלימוד or something like that.
You don't really deserve a response to this stupidity but il give you two things to think about.
1. Seeing this as a blame game is a huge mistake and doesn't get anyone anywhere.
2. There are thousands of innocent people on both sides whose entire lives have been uprooted and who have gone through major upheaval in the last few years. They deserve every yid advocating for them load and clear. Terror is unacceptable.

What value is there in such a post?

You want to discuss R' Reich's talk and bring to the surface the importance of condemning violence, good. But as a non-Gerrer where's the value in expressing any opinion about what is perceived from the outside? Let's stick to condemning violence.

As an outsider, many things don't make sense to me, but I feel it's not my position to take a position or publicly express an opinion about that which is being publicly reported (especially since life experience has taught me to take public reporting with a heaping tablespoon of salt).

[Euclid]

As someone belonging to a sect where such wild and baseless allegations are thrown at it willy-nilly

(TBH I thought that's where he was going with the first part of the sentence)

[JlmBoi]

As someone belonging to a sect where such wild and baseless allegations are thrown at it willy-nilly, got anything to back you up on that?

Fair enough, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole, it's not right that I wrote that and now this..
As ExGingi sums it up quite well:

What value is there in such a post?
Let's stick to condemning violence.

It doesn't really matter. I was responding to AsherO questioning my verbiage.

[AsherO]

I can't tell you exactly what people leaving and joining the RY are feeling, but I can tell you it's a huge leap to take with major consequences, and noone is making it for a דרך הלימוד or something like that.

But that’s exactly what you did here:

There are thousands and thousands of people that are dying iside as they watch their children being educated by a system that preaches ridiculous and destructive values

You offered commentary and interpretation that to me (not as a mod) seems quite severe and out of line.

I’m with ExGingi, let’s not try to take sides on the issues, certainly not to project our perspectives, and instead focus on condemning violence regardless of the issues at hand.

[ExGingi]

But that’s exactly what you did here:

You offered commentary and interpretation that to me (not as a mod) seems quite severe and out of line.

I’m with ExGingi, let’s not try to take sides on the issues, certainly not to project our perspectives, and instead focus on condemning violence regardless of the issues at hand.

And unfortunately, by quoting it over an over, it doesn't do any good. Maybe it's time to lock this thread. I think the point of condemning violence (especially by leaders) has been clearly made and universally agreed upon.

[AsherO]

And unfortunately, by quoting it over an over, it doesn't do any good. Maybe it's time to lock this thread. I think the point of condemning violence (especially by leaders) has been clearly made and universally agreed upon.

Fair enough, I don’t tend to lock threads, I leave that decision to other mods.

I also think quoting negative speech (that isn’t going to get deleted) and speaking out against it is constructive in its own right, as it frames how and why such speech is out of place.

You said it well yourself without quoting, but no or some reason I still felt like it resonated differently when I quoted it. נהרא נהרא ופשטיה

[S209]

FWIW I have had private conversations with quite a few [individuals who happen to be] Gerrers and they portray it as far more cult-like than anything else I’m familiar with. They described certain rituals and requirements which truly shocked me, and all corroborated them as true.

This is pre-R’SA, I don’t know what side they’re on.

With that said, most of what JlmBoi wrote could accurately be said or misconstrued about many sects of Yoddishkeit so this isn’t a simple black-and-white question. But I think one could confidently say that right or wrong, Ger is at least in a category of its own even compared to Chassidus’ that appear almost identical to outsiders.

[ExGingi]

With that said, most of what JlmBoi wrote could accurately be said or misconstrued about many sects of Yoddishkeit so this isn’t a simple black-and-white question. But I think one could confidently say that right or wrong, Ger is at least in a category of its own even compared to Chassidus’ that appear almost identical to outsiders.

My son tells a story of a misnaged that found himself in a Kotzker Beis Hamedrash on Yom Kippur. It's a beautiful story with a beautiful lesson, but if one drops out the punchline it could really sound as a terrible portrayal of Kotzk. (I mentioning this since Ger is an offshoot of Kotzk AFAIK).

[neveryou]

They described certain rituals and requirements which truly shocked me, and all corroborated them as true.

I heard that, that is a reason why some people are leaving and going to RS"A, bc he doesn't require all those takanos.

I've also heard how people don't like to intermarry into ger bc of all the takanos.