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A (unauthorized) write up of what Rav Reich stated in his Macha. I definitely did not write every word he said, but hopefuly its accurate
-regardless of what people are saying, nothing like this has happened before, red lines have been crossed
-we don't need to hear both sides and there's no tayna "don't mish in our machlokes"
-The reason we need to be moche is: Haroeh Soteh Bikilkola Yazor Atzmo Min Hayayin: because we get affected that we realize such a thing is possible: a pirtzas Geder (quote from Rav Aharon's Macha on the mevaze of the Brisjker Rav
-Even though the waring parties will not hear the macha, and even if they do they'll ignore it, need to be moche

-There are things that must be totally beyond the realm of possibility (his mashal was a conversation in middle of silent amida)
-A Yid who hits another Yid is a Rasha, pasul l'eidus, chiyuv malkos, and does not count for a minyan.
-You can play games and say you're a nirdaf, doesn't change anything, Zos HaTorah Eino Muchlefes. Those involved are pasul leidus and don't count for a minyan.
-There's a story with the Chidushei Harim: in short The gabbi hit one of the chassidim who wanted to enter when the rebbe was unavailable. Later the Rebbe told the gabbi to bring a Minyan, the gabbai brought 8 more, the rebbe said where's the minyan? the gabbai said theres 10. The rebbbe said "you hit a Yid, you don't count for minyan" The gabbai answered "I did it for the kavod of the Rebbe!" The Rebbe answered "This is not a Kavod for me! This is is (bizayon)"
-It's a group of people who are doing what they think is kavod for their rebbe
-doesn't think that the rebbe has any idea what their doing "for his kavod"
-the rebbe is a continuation of gedolei gedolim. (he went on for several minutes praising in turn each of the shalsheles Gur including the current rebbe)
-what happened is a bizayon for the rebbe, chazer treif.
-It's not the first time that a Yid hit another Yid. This is different. This was a POGROM. and that hasn't happened before. Five yungerlite made Gomel w/ shem and malchos because of a Pogrom made by Yidden with Spodiks. "That's a Bizayon for the Rebbe, a Bizayon for Ger, a Bizayon for me, and a Bizayon for you, a Bizayon for Kol Beis Yisroel"
-"Yidden should beseige a shul, and the people inside should be afraid they're going to be killed? Yidden? Pesulei Eidus! Mechalilei Shabbos! …It's a stain on the whole nation!"
-The claim "it was spontaneous": Kristalnach from the German point of view: We were nirdafim, the Jews were after them, they were sovel, it was terrible, they couldn't anymore. They waited for a ruse. The assassination of a German diplomat in Paris by a jewish boy. The German goverment announced in code: We cant take the achrayus of containing those people who were outraged by what the jews did here and there, we won't be able to contain them anymore."
So too here. Some one did something. It's not clear what exactly was the "great avla" that he did. Comes a "rav" says "Nisbakashti limsor Meis HaVaad Haelyonim (they're not elyonim - they're underworld people!) Limsor: that we have acted till now with so much savlonus...such restraint, everyone knows, they've been rodef us we've been niddafim...." [You remember these nirdafim, 10 rabbanim came to America when Rav Shaul was here, because they were Nirdafim...R' Shaul must of been killing people left and right, they were such nirdafim they had to come from eretz yisroel with the hatzalah...], we are nirdafim, and therefore we can't stop people..." and the code was very clear, and from this came the...
-they have no shame? These are Yidden? A rav?, a Vaada? and bachurim and yungerlite standing, hitting, going into peoples house...makkos retzach...Rachmone Letzlan!!!
-what's worse? this, or what's been going on the last few years?
-the fact that there is an orginization in klal yisreol like yeasfeini is a stain on the whole nation. an ORGINISATION that befriends children that they manged to catch, keep away from their parents, Mechanech a gantze dor not to speak to thier father or mother because they (father/mother) chose a different derech, cut off from this one, not to go to simchas...and these are pekudos that you cant tell me are not true because they've PRINTED them, and sent them in Robocalls...Have they no shame?
-there's a musag in klal yisroel of Mishkal - some times you need to do somthing, but knowing when, and how . (story of the Sar Shalom, who's elderly mother was only willing to eat what her Shalom'ke ate. On peasach he ate gebrochts, so she would eat the matza). Right, the kavod of the rebbe is very, very important. But for this you couse an almana pain? Metzaer Yesomim? Pekudos, everything lo plug, no exceptions. estranging children from their parents. people are crying. Every tear from a yid, SHaarei Dimaos Lo Yinalu...Shrekt zach nisht? (have you no fear?) no pachad? You think this isn't going to come back to haunt you? You think you're not going to suffer? The torah says "shmoe eshma tzakaso...".....people are crying....(and they say) "its gornisht, WE"RE nirdafim, they're rodfim!", what is this jokes? this is a game? They won't have nachas from their children, that I can say. Kinder that were torn from their parents, sitting on mizrach, getting kavod becuase people are telling them it's the right thing to do...not to go to their mothers levaya, fathers levaya...and then in 20 years time you'll have volumes of yaldei ger, malshinim(?). It'll come to haunt them. A child must have a father, a mother, yasmus is a tragedy. It's not going to end well for them. The RbS"O doesn't give siyata dishmaya for such things. It's not a mehalach!
-difference between the two side.
       -Sometimes a minority controls. This Vaade has a few eidel yidden, they can't say anything, they can't stand up to it...one is mechazek the other, this must be the right thing to do, and they quell their guilty conscience, to bring out the lowest element in people.
       -The other eida. Rav Shaul demands Romemus Hanefesh, he demands it, talks about it, lives with it. he refuses to speak negatively. He himself is a Groise Mentch, a talmid chochom amiti, he is a baal madreiga, and kederech haRuchnius its mashpia on all his people. They're the same people, they come from the same crowd, why are the so different? On this side there's a "vaade" and on this side there's a adam gadol who demands romemus from his tzibur..... Abaal kishron nifla.... and people connect with him and are mashpia ltov
-You're eida creates that people need to make gomel with shem/malchus and you make a joke about it...pasuk in navi yeshaya you don't want to understand because then you'll need to do teshuva...the r eibishter sees all
-this has to be something that doesn't happen in klal yisreol, a one time aberration...
-maybe this happened to publicize Rav shaul to the rest of klal Yisroel. There are many great chassidishe RY that the rest of the world doesnt hear of (brought examples...), mistome by chassidim they've never heard of R' Nachum...
-his misnagdim are causing his growth in the world...(mashal like tzefardeia was spread by the metzriim themselfs)
-what is this vaade worried about? he doesn't want to be rebbe. he want's to be a RY. The greatest kavod for Ger would have been for him to be their RY!
-you see in his the gadlus of a talmid chacham amiti, not intrested in the pettyness of lo sikom v'lo sitor...
-how sad it is that the hemshech of the gadlus of pshischa and kotzke has become...mesiras nefesh for narishkeiten...madeup stories...
-how Rav Shilo Raphael (from Mosad Harav Kook - grandson of Rav Maimon - Mizrachi) became a Gerer chossid...

« Last edited by yfr bachur on June 18, 2022, 07:51:48 PM »

Author Topic: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"  (Read 40688 times)

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #200 on: June 15, 2022, 12:59:00 PM »
As someone belonging to a sect where such wild and baseless allegations are thrown at it willy-nilly, got anything to back you up on that? I'll admit to being pretty clueless on the subject



This is a random picture from a couple of years ago. I'm sure insiders know of much more.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #201 on: June 15, 2022, 01:03:55 PM »
This is a random picture from a couple of years ago. I'm sure insiders know of much more.

Which insiders? Ger, Bobov, Satmar, Rashbam St. in BB, etc.?

Again I will state that I believe this thread should be locked. It is devolving into a pointless discussion about the merits of various Chassidus and Hashkafa, which I don't think is our place.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #202 on: June 15, 2022, 01:06:11 PM »

I heard that, that is a reason why some people are leaving and going to RS"A, bc he doesn't require all those takanos.

I've also heard how people don't like to intermarry into ger bc of all the takanos.
Many of those were instituted by the Bais Yisroel, and the Lev Simcha and the Pnei Menachem rescinded all of them. Today's Rebbe reinstated them and added some more, fwiu.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #203 on: June 15, 2022, 01:12:57 PM »
Many of those were instituted by the Bais Yisroel, and the Lev Simcha and the Pnei Menachem rescinded all of them. Today's Rebbe reinstated them and added some more, fwiu.

Is it fair to say that a leader of a group has a better understanding of what is right for his group at different times, than any outsider?

Unless one is contemplating becoming a Gerrer, what point is there in bringing any of this to the table?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2022, 01:31:42 PM »
Unfortunately, there are some that cannot resist the temptation to go off topic and start bashing. This thread was supposed to be about what "happened in ger" not about the chassidus or the Rebbe or even the reason why people leave. This is the risk of being mocheh in this situation, and Rav Uren Reich felt the machaa needed to be made. But by now, seems this thread has run it's course. I agree it should be locked from making new comments unless people can commit to controlling themselves and keeping on topic.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #205 on: June 15, 2022, 01:38:00 PM »
Unfortunately, there are some that cannot resist the temptation to go off topic and start bashing. This thread was supposed to be about what "happened in ger" not about the chassidus or the Rebbe or even the reason why people leave. This is the risk of being mocheh in this situation, and Rav Uren Reich felt the machaa needed to be made. But by now, seems this thread has run it's course. I agree it should be locked from making new comments unless people can commit to controlling themselves and keeping on topic.

either that, or the entire takkanos discussion gets pulled out into its own thread/deleted.
I think we have some willing volunteers to go through the last 2 pages and RTM ell related posts

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #206 on: June 15, 2022, 01:50:40 PM »
Is it fair to say that a leader of a group has a better understanding of what is right for his group at different times, than any outsider?

Given the benefit of the doubt, yes.
However....

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #207 on: June 15, 2022, 01:58:40 PM »
I heard that, that is a reason why some people are leaving and going to RS"A, bc he doesn't require all those takanos.

I've also heard how people don't like to intermarry into ger bc of all the takanos.

Might all be true but (as we all agree)
it doesn’t justify violence on either side.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #208 on: June 15, 2022, 02:22:48 PM »
People are missing the point here.

In any case, discussion about takanos can be in another thread. Someone saying how that violence came about and how being Moiche can stop it does belong here.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #209 on: June 15, 2022, 02:34:02 PM »
However....

Dangerous slippery slope.

Some humility won't hurt.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #210 on: June 15, 2022, 02:58:06 PM »
Dangerous slippery slope.

Some humility won't hurt.

Totally. It’s ironic to say that BoE/Yaffed (and even biobook?) shouldn’t comment on how we run our yeshivas, but we can comment on how other mainstream Orthodox groups are led.

We need to all live-and-let-live better, and if we do, we’ll all live better.
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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #211 on: June 15, 2022, 03:02:18 PM »
Totally. It’s ironic to say that BoE/Yaffed (and even biobook?) shouldn’t comment on how we run our yeshivas, but we can comment on how other mainstream Orthodox groups are led.

We need to all live-and-let-live better, and if we do, we’ll all live better.

The gist of this whole thread is actually advocating for live-and-let-live conduct. 

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #212 on: June 15, 2022, 03:07:49 PM »
Ger can do whatever they want internally and the rest of Klal Yisroel won't care. Avoid them in shidduchim perhaps, but respect their right to go their own way.
However, when they are abusive to those who want to leave, and violent and dirty and....At some point they lose the benefit of the doubt...

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #213 on: June 15, 2022, 03:48:06 PM »

I heard that, that is a reason why some people are leaving and going to RS"A, bc he doesn't require all those takanos.

I've also heard how people don't like to intermarry into ger bc of all the takanos.
So long as this thread focuses on the specific events of the past few years as Rav Reich did I am good. If anyone want to disparage any derachin or minhagim or the like start your own thread and give your own din vicheshbon.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #214 on: June 15, 2022, 04:26:53 PM »
Ger can do whatever they want internally and the rest of Klal Yisroel won't care. Avoid them in shidduchim perhaps, but respect their right to go their own way.
However, when they are abusive to those who want to leave, and violent and dirty and....At some point they lose the benefit of the doubt...
combining the two issues muddies the message on the second one.
call out violence/underhanded tactics "cleanly" on their own

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #215 on: June 15, 2022, 04:33:22 PM »
combining the two issues muddies the message on the second one.
call out violence/underhanded tactics "cleanly" on their own
Exactly. That's why I didn't mention any of that stuff. Only things that were done in relation to RSA leaving.
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #216 on: June 15, 2022, 09:59:05 PM »
combining the two issues muddies the message
This cannot be overstated.
I recently sold my car and a week later the guy told me he wants me to sign a bill of sale without the price listed, because he was having some issues registering the car in his name. I told him no. Over the next few weeks he reached out a few times asking for the same document without the price and then said he's going to return the car if I don't give in to his demand. Long story short, he wanted me to leave out the price (presumably to a save few pennies on tax), but more importantly, needed the document filled slightly differently (without any legal issues). Since he kept putting the two issues together, he got very frustrated with my lack of assistance. If he would have told me the actual issue on day 1 and not mentioned the removing price, the frustration would not have happened.

ETA I figured if this thread is going off topic, this is a better direction.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #217 on: June 15, 2022, 10:35:29 PM »
Interesting that Rabbi Reich makes no mention of this.

i guess he only wanted to make a point
nor awake the devil

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #218 on: June 15, 2022, 11:42:16 PM »
combining the two issues muddies the message on the second one.
call out violence/underhanded tactics "cleanly" on their own

While in general I completely agree, it is important to understand how any group has such complete control over the way the followers think - that is what allows otherwise (presumably) reasonable people to do the things they have done.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #219 on: June 16, 2022, 01:41:45 AM »
This cannot be overstated.
I recently sold my car and a week later the guy told me he wants me to sign a bill of sale without the price listed, because he was having some issues registering the car in his name. I told him no. Over the next few weeks he reached out a few times asking for the same document without the price and then said he's going to return the car if I don't give in to his demand. Long story short, he wanted me to leave out the price (presumably to a save few pennies on tax), but more importantly, needed the document filled slightly differently (without any legal issues). Since he kept putting the two issues together, he got very frustrated with my lack of assistance. If he would have told me the actual issue on day 1 and not mentioned the removing price, the frustration would not have happened.

ETA I figured if this thread is going off topic, this is a better direction.

Great story. Another car story.
My sister got her car stolen by a kid in high school and when the police found him he left his backpack in the car. At the hearing in court, my sister actually brought the bag with her and returned it to the kid! Mi K'Amcha Yisroel!