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A (unauthorized) write up of what Rav Reich stated in his Macha. I definitely did not write every word he said, but hopefuly its accurate
-regardless of what people are saying, nothing like this has happened before, red lines have been crossed
-we don't need to hear both sides and there's no tayna "don't mish in our machlokes"
-The reason we need to be moche is: Haroeh Soteh Bikilkola Yazor Atzmo Min Hayayin: because we get affected that we realize such a thing is possible: a pirtzas Geder (quote from Rav Aharon's Macha on the mevaze of the Brisjker Rav
-Even though the waring parties will not hear the macha, and even if they do they'll ignore it, need to be moche

-There are things that must be totally beyond the realm of possibility (his mashal was a conversation in middle of silent amida)
-A Yid who hits another Yid is a Rasha, pasul l'eidus, chiyuv malkos, and does not count for a minyan.
-You can play games and say you're a nirdaf, doesn't change anything, Zos HaTorah Eino Muchlefes. Those involved are pasul leidus and don't count for a minyan.
-There's a story with the Chidushei Harim: in short The gabbi hit one of the chassidim who wanted to enter when the rebbe was unavailable. Later the Rebbe told the gabbi to bring a Minyan, the gabbai brought 8 more, the rebbe said where's the minyan? the gabbai said theres 10. The rebbbe said "you hit a Yid, you don't count for minyan" The gabbai answered "I did it for the kavod of the Rebbe!" The Rebbe answered "This is not a Kavod for me! This is is (bizayon)"
-It's a group of people who are doing what they think is kavod for their rebbe
-doesn't think that the rebbe has any idea what their doing "for his kavod"
-the rebbe is a continuation of gedolei gedolim. (he went on for several minutes praising in turn each of the shalsheles Gur including the current rebbe)
-what happened is a bizayon for the rebbe, chazer treif.
-It's not the first time that a Yid hit another Yid. This is different. This was a POGROM. and that hasn't happened before. Five yungerlite made Gomel w/ shem and malchos because of a Pogrom made by Yidden with Spodiks. "That's a Bizayon for the Rebbe, a Bizayon for Ger, a Bizayon for me, and a Bizayon for you, a Bizayon for Kol Beis Yisroel"
-"Yidden should beseige a shul, and the people inside should be afraid they're going to be killed? Yidden? Pesulei Eidus! Mechalilei Shabbos! …It's a stain on the whole nation!"
-The claim "it was spontaneous": Kristalnach from the German point of view: We were nirdafim, the Jews were after them, they were sovel, it was terrible, they couldn't anymore. They waited for a ruse. The assassination of a German diplomat in Paris by a jewish boy. The German goverment announced in code: We cant take the achrayus of containing those people who were outraged by what the jews did here and there, we won't be able to contain them anymore."
So too here. Some one did something. It's not clear what exactly was the "great avla" that he did. Comes a "rav" says "Nisbakashti limsor Meis HaVaad Haelyonim (they're not elyonim - they're underworld people!) Limsor: that we have acted till now with so much savlonus...such restraint, everyone knows, they've been rodef us we've been niddafim...." [You remember these nirdafim, 10 rabbanim came to America when Rav Shaul was here, because they were Nirdafim...R' Shaul must of been killing people left and right, they were such nirdafim they had to come from eretz yisroel with the hatzalah...], we are nirdafim, and therefore we can't stop people..." and the code was very clear, and from this came the...
-they have no shame? These are Yidden? A rav?, a Vaada? and bachurim and yungerlite standing, hitting, going into peoples house...makkos retzach...Rachmone Letzlan!!!
-what's worse? this, or what's been going on the last few years?
-the fact that there is an orginization in klal yisreol like yeasfeini is a stain on the whole nation. an ORGINISATION that befriends children that they manged to catch, keep away from their parents, Mechanech a gantze dor not to speak to thier father or mother because they (father/mother) chose a different derech, cut off from this one, not to go to simchas...and these are pekudos that you cant tell me are not true because they've PRINTED them, and sent them in Robocalls...Have they no shame?
-there's a musag in klal yisroel of Mishkal - some times you need to do somthing, but knowing when, and how . (story of the Sar Shalom, who's elderly mother was only willing to eat what her Shalom'ke ate. On peasach he ate gebrochts, so she would eat the matza). Right, the kavod of the rebbe is very, very important. But for this you couse an almana pain? Metzaer Yesomim? Pekudos, everything lo plug, no exceptions. estranging children from their parents. people are crying. Every tear from a yid, SHaarei Dimaos Lo Yinalu...Shrekt zach nisht? (have you no fear?) no pachad? You think this isn't going to come back to haunt you? You think you're not going to suffer? The torah says "shmoe eshma tzakaso...".....people are crying....(and they say) "its gornisht, WE"RE nirdafim, they're rodfim!", what is this jokes? this is a game? They won't have nachas from their children, that I can say. Kinder that were torn from their parents, sitting on mizrach, getting kavod becuase people are telling them it's the right thing to do...not to go to their mothers levaya, fathers levaya...and then in 20 years time you'll have volumes of yaldei ger, malshinim(?). It'll come to haunt them. A child must have a father, a mother, yasmus is a tragedy. It's not going to end well for them. The RbS"O doesn't give siyata dishmaya for such things. It's not a mehalach!
-difference between the two side.
       -Sometimes a minority controls. This Vaade has a few eidel yidden, they can't say anything, they can't stand up to it...one is mechazek the other, this must be the right thing to do, and they quell their guilty conscience, to bring out the lowest element in people.
       -The other eida. Rav Shaul demands Romemus Hanefesh, he demands it, talks about it, lives with it. he refuses to speak negatively. He himself is a Groise Mentch, a talmid chochom amiti, he is a baal madreiga, and kederech haRuchnius its mashpia on all his people. They're the same people, they come from the same crowd, why are the so different? On this side there's a "vaade" and on this side there's a adam gadol who demands romemus from his tzibur..... Abaal kishron nifla.... and people connect with him and are mashpia ltov
-You're eida creates that people need to make gomel with shem/malchus and you make a joke about it...pasuk in navi yeshaya you don't want to understand because then you'll need to do teshuva...the r eibishter sees all
-this has to be something that doesn't happen in klal yisreol, a one time aberration...
-maybe this happened to publicize Rav shaul to the rest of klal Yisroel. There are many great chassidishe RY that the rest of the world doesnt hear of (brought examples...), mistome by chassidim they've never heard of R' Nachum...
-his misnagdim are causing his growth in the world...(mashal like tzefardeia was spread by the metzriim themselfs)
-what is this vaade worried about? he doesn't want to be rebbe. he want's to be a RY. The greatest kavod for Ger would have been for him to be their RY!
-you see in his the gadlus of a talmid chacham amiti, not intrested in the pettyness of lo sikom v'lo sitor...
-how sad it is that the hemshech of the gadlus of pshischa and kotzke has become...mesiras nefesh for narishkeiten...madeup stories...
-how Rav Shilo Raphael (from Mosad Harav Kook - grandson of Rav Maimon - Mizrachi) became a Gerer chossid...

« Last edited by yfr bachur on June 18, 2022, 07:51:48 PM »

Author Topic: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"  (Read 40351 times)

Offline eli1571

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2022, 04:36:54 PM »
And from advocate to prosecutor. Satmar had no frictions at all with most kehillos in Williamsburg whatsoever. Besides for the fact that another wrongdoing doesn't make it any less disgusting.
Wow, what a distortion of history. Second part I agree too, but that wasn't the context it was written in if you reread it.

Offline eli1571

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2022, 04:38:37 PM »
Anyhow I didn't come here to list other kehillos that had politics, it was just a thought which I wanted to hear about, so I guess I'm done here, as we are going down the wrong route in discussing old politics.

Offline jye

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2022, 04:40:33 PM »
i was not comparing R' Reich to these groups. I'm comparing those who post and repost these things as those that felt that in the past they were "Chayav" to go against the Torah. This is a totally unnecessary discussion for 95% of us. We don't have them being Eidim and we don't have them daven in our shuls... so why are we even discussing matters that don't pertain to us at all? Can someone give me a source trashing a group like this?
I thought Rav Reich makes this abundantly clear. He started off saying that many will say why get involved in a machlokes? He proceeded to discuss why it is an imperative to speak out and condemn it rather than remain silent. He is speaking to a Lakewood olam that has little shaychus to either side.

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2022, 04:50:57 PM »
I thought Rav Reich makes this abundantly clear. He started off saying that many will say why get involved in a machlokes? He proceeded to discuss why it is an imperative to speak out and condemn it rather than remain silent. He is speaking to a Lakewood olam that has little shaychus to either side.

very interesting. When someone posts R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbachs heter to flip the little tabs on a timer on Yom Tov, he gets major kickback (and a bunch of stupid comments) wondering how he could possibly say such a thing [https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg2588546#msg2588546]. Now this would only be a D'rabbanan, but still, the DD oilum is very machmir so what can we do...
But comes to Loshon Horah (d'orasia), and because 1 Rav says its muttar we start trash talking a whole chassidus (and of course add all the other politics of any other group we can think of as well).

Shame on you all. This is not OK. This is why we are still in Golus w/o the Beis Hamikdash.

Offline jye

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2022, 05:00:39 PM »
very interesting. When someone posts R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbachs heter to flip the little tabs on a timer on Yom Tov, he gets major kickback (and a bunch of stupid comments) wondering how he could possibly say such a thing [https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg2588546#msg2588546]. Now this would only be a D'rabbanan, but still, the DD oilum is very machmir so what can we do...
But comes to Loshon Horah (d'orasia), and because 1 Rav says its muttar we start trash talking a whole chassidus (and of course add all the other politics of any other group we can think of as well).

Shame on you all. This is not OK. This is why we are still in Golus w/o the Beis Hamikdash.
I’m sure you are well meaning but it’s not ok to erroneously lump everything under the Issur of lashon hara.
Rav Uren Reich says we must talk about about it and an anonymous poster on DDF begs to differ. Please bring any other daas torah to the table and we can discuss.

It we would great if we always had the luxury to error on the side of caution but life is not always so simple. When it comes to shidduchim, job candidates, and a host of other issues it is wrong to withhold information that is a toeles even if it is uncomfortable and easier to just stay away. I have an aunt who was married to a mentally ill individual and was an agunah for close to fifteen years because those she called about him didn’t feel right about getting in the way of a shidduch by letting her know of his issues. Bringing up Chaim Walder was certainly not comfortable for many. This is obviously not as cut and dry but unless there is daas torah to the contrary Rav Uren Reich has spoken.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 05:50:43 PM by jye »

Offline yelped

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2022, 05:15:54 PM »
very interesting. When someone posts R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbachs heter to flip the little tabs on a timer on Yom Tov, he gets major kickback (and a bunch of stupid comments) wondering how he could possibly say such a thing [https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg2588546#msg2588546]. Now this would only be a D'rabbanan, but still, the DD oilum is very machmir so what can we do...
But comes to Loshon Horah (d'orasia), and because 1 Rav says its muttar we start trash talking a whole chassidus (and of course add all the other politics of any other group we can think of as well).

Shame on you all. This is not OK. This is why we are still in Golus w/o the Beis Hamikdash.
Seriously? Please recall the gemara and what Rav Yochanan says about what caused the Churban (the humility of R'Zecharya Ben Avkulus).

Offline mushkovits

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2022, 05:52:56 PM »
To all of you who claim this ain’t news: I don’t recall Satmar ever kidnapping or coaching wife/kids to toss husband/parents of any Lubavitcher.
Nor does it come to my mind of any other chassidim ever doing anything remotely close to such horrendous things.

And to who all defend this in all types of mitzvahs  : question do you also do the same on the lev tahor cult???? Utter nonsense l. Get to the know the facts. your brethren are being harassed and tortured mentally and physically and if WE ALL would speak out we would stop it.



Offline neveryou

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2022, 06:45:57 PM »
To all of you who claim this ain’t news: I don’t recall Satmar ever kidnapping or coaching wife/kids to toss husband/parents of any Lubavitcher.
Nor does it come to my mind of any other chassidim ever doing anything remotely close to such horrendous things.




Excuse me?

Cutting a lubavitchers beard off

Shechting a satmar that was learning chassidis and becoming a lubavitcher and dropping him off on the side of the rode naked and beaten up? (He survived)

Trying to kill the Rebbes secretary that on yomtov the police put him in the car to save him and he couldn't rely on the police from Williamsburg but had to wait for the police from crown heights

Bringing a dog into the Rebbes ohel

On one Friday they stoned a mitzvah tank

Offline AsherO

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2022, 06:50:27 PM »
Does it do anyone any good to rehash the specifics?
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline jye

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2022, 06:54:56 PM »

Excuse me?

Cutting a lubavitchers beard off

Shechting a satmar that was learning chassidis and becoming a lubavitcher and dropping him off on the side of the rode naked and beaten up? (He survived)

Trying to kill the Rebbes secretary that on yomtov the police put him in the car to save him and he couldn't rely on the police from Williamsburg but had to wait for the police from crown heights

Bringing a dog into the Rebbes ohel

On one Friday they stoned a mitzvah tank
Can you start a different thread and take this there if you think there is a point to it?

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2022, 06:55:50 PM »

Excuse me?

Cutting a lubavitchers beard off

Shechting a satmar that was learning chassidis and becoming a lubavitcher and dropping him off on the side of the rode naked and beaten up? (He survived)

Trying to kill the Rebbes secretary that on yomtov the police put him in the car to save him and he couldn't rely on the police from Williamsburg but had to wait for the police from crown heights

Bringing a dog into the Rebbes ohel

On one Friday they stoned a mitzvah tank
Coming soon, in the next issue of the Ami Magazine!  ::)

ETA: Don't mean to make fun of a serious topic. Just saying that as someone who never heard of any of this before, this sounds really fascinating!

Offline neveryou

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2022, 06:56:33 PM »
Can you start a different thread and take this there if you think there is a point to it?
The point is that this is not the first time the such behavior has happened

Offline gozalim

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2022, 06:58:54 PM »
i was not comparing R' Reich to these groups. I'm comparing those who post and repost these things as those that felt that in the past they were "Chayav" to go against the Torah. This is a totally unnecessary discussion for 95% of us. We don't have them being Eidim and we don't have them daven in our shuls... so why are we even discussing matters that don't pertain to us at all? Can someone give me a source trashing a group like this?
I’ll play your game.
Presumably R’ Reich is not worried about the particular michshol of one of these perps serving as an invalid Ed.
I’m going to guess that his point is that we as broader Jewish community need to clearly and unequivocally disavow tactics of violence,intimidation, etc.
Or we run the risk of becoming the kind of place that places become when force works…
(Examples in this thread unfortunately suffice)

Offline TimT

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2022, 07:00:00 PM »
And this folks is why these threads should never even be started. It’s one thing for famous people/Rabbonim, who have followers, or give mussar, to talk about it. Quite another thing for social media, chat groups to sit & gossip about it. Absolutely zero תועלת. Quite the opposite, actually.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2022, 07:00:14 PM »
The point is that this is not the first time the such behavior has happened

Excuse me?

Cutting a lubavitchers beard off

Shechting a satmar that was learning chassidis and becoming a lubavitcher and dropping him off on the side of the rode naked and beaten up? (He survived)

Trying to kill the Rebbes secretary that on yomtov the police put him in the car to save him and he couldn't rely on the police from Williamsburg but had to wait for the police from crown heights

Bringing a dog into the Rebbes ohel

On one Friday they stoned a mitzvah tank

you’re right,but I think in this case @AsherO is more right

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2022, 07:02:07 PM »
very interesting. When someone posts R' Shlomo Zalman Aurbachs heter to flip the little tabs on a timer on Yom Tov, he gets major kickback (and a bunch of stupid comments) wondering how he could possibly say such a thing [https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=11285.msg2588546#msg2588546]. Now this would only be a D'rabbanan, but still, the DD oilum is very machmir so what can we do...
But comes to Loshon Horah (d'orasia), and because 1 Rav says its muttar we start trash talking a whole chassidus (and of course add all the other politics of any other group we can think of as well).

Shame on you all. This is not OK. This is why we are still in Golus w/o the Beis Hamikdash.
For the record, what you wrote there is not the heter he spoke of as was  pointed out there
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline jye

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2022, 07:20:34 PM »
And this folks is why these threads should never even be started. It’s one thing for famous people/Rabbonim, who have followers, or give mussar, to talk about it. Quite another thing for social media, chat groups to sit & gossip about it. Absolutely zero תועלת. Quite the opposite, actually.
If instead of  כל הרואה סוטה בקלקולה יזיר עצמו מן היין it’s going to devolve into a “well I remember this satmar guy” instead of taking the lesson that should be taken perhaps it would be better if mods just deleted the thread.

Offline yelped

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2022, 07:22:00 PM »
The Viznitzer Rebe and the Stoliner Rebbe also spoke out publicly against the mafia actions.

Offline yelped

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2022, 07:22:26 PM »
If instead of  כל הרואה סוטה בקלקולה יזיר עצמו מן היין it’s going to devolve into a “well I remember this satmar guy” instead of taking the lesson that should be taken perhaps it would be better if mods just deleted the thread.
Rather just that post. This thread is very ltoeles.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2022, 07:23:51 PM »
And this folks is why these threads should never even be started. It’s one thing for famous people/Rabbonim, who have followers, or give mussar, to talk about it. Quite another thing for social media, chat groups to sit & gossip about it. Absolutely zero תועלת. Quite the opposite, actually.

But wait, before this thread inevitably gets locked or deleted, let me quickly air my grievances...