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A (unauthorized) write up of what Rav Reich stated in his Macha. I definitely did not write every word he said, but hopefuly its accurate
-regardless of what people are saying, nothing like this has happened before, red lines have been crossed
-we don't need to hear both sides and there's no tayna "don't mish in our machlokes"
-The reason we need to be moche is: Haroeh Soteh Bikilkola Yazor Atzmo Min Hayayin: because we get affected that we realize such a thing is possible: a pirtzas Geder (quote from Rav Aharon's Macha on the mevaze of the Brisjker Rav
-Even though the waring parties will not hear the macha, and even if they do they'll ignore it, need to be moche

-There are things that must be totally beyond the realm of possibility (his mashal was a conversation in middle of silent amida)
-A Yid who hits another Yid is a Rasha, pasul l'eidus, chiyuv malkos, and does not count for a minyan.
-You can play games and say you're a nirdaf, doesn't change anything, Zos HaTorah Eino Muchlefes. Those involved are pasul leidus and don't count for a minyan.
-There's a story with the Chidushei Harim: in short The gabbi hit one of the chassidim who wanted to enter when the rebbe was unavailable. Later the Rebbe told the gabbi to bring a Minyan, the gabbai brought 8 more, the rebbe said where's the minyan? the gabbai said theres 10. The rebbbe said "you hit a Yid, you don't count for minyan" The gabbai answered "I did it for the kavod of the Rebbe!" The Rebbe answered "This is not a Kavod for me! This is is (bizayon)"
-It's a group of people who are doing what they think is kavod for their rebbe
-doesn't think that the rebbe has any idea what their doing "for his kavod"
-the rebbe is a continuation of gedolei gedolim. (he went on for several minutes praising in turn each of the shalsheles Gur including the current rebbe)
-what happened is a bizayon for the rebbe, chazer treif.
-It's not the first time that a Yid hit another Yid. This is different. This was a POGROM. and that hasn't happened before. Five yungerlite made Gomel w/ shem and malchos because of a Pogrom made by Yidden with Spodiks. "That's a Bizayon for the Rebbe, a Bizayon for Ger, a Bizayon for me, and a Bizayon for you, a Bizayon for Kol Beis Yisroel"
-"Yidden should beseige a shul, and the people inside should be afraid they're going to be killed? Yidden? Pesulei Eidus! Mechalilei Shabbos! …It's a stain on the whole nation!"
-The claim "it was spontaneous": Kristalnach from the German point of view: We were nirdafim, the Jews were after them, they were sovel, it was terrible, they couldn't anymore. They waited for a ruse. The assassination of a German diplomat in Paris by a jewish boy. The German goverment announced in code: We cant take the achrayus of containing those people who were outraged by what the jews did here and there, we won't be able to contain them anymore."
So too here. Some one did something. It's not clear what exactly was the "great avla" that he did. Comes a "rav" says "Nisbakashti limsor Meis HaVaad Haelyonim (they're not elyonim - they're underworld people!) Limsor: that we have acted till now with so much savlonus...such restraint, everyone knows, they've been rodef us we've been niddafim...." [You remember these nirdafim, 10 rabbanim came to America when Rav Shaul was here, because they were Nirdafim...R' Shaul must of been killing people left and right, they were such nirdafim they had to come from eretz yisroel with the hatzalah...], we are nirdafim, and therefore we can't stop people..." and the code was very clear, and from this came the...
-they have no shame? These are Yidden? A rav?, a Vaada? and bachurim and yungerlite standing, hitting, going into peoples house...makkos retzach...Rachmone Letzlan!!!
-what's worse? this, or what's been going on the last few years?
-the fact that there is an orginization in klal yisreol like yeasfeini is a stain on the whole nation. an ORGINISATION that befriends children that they manged to catch, keep away from their parents, Mechanech a gantze dor not to speak to thier father or mother because they (father/mother) chose a different derech, cut off from this one, not to go to simchas...and these are pekudos that you cant tell me are not true because they've PRINTED them, and sent them in Robocalls...Have they no shame?
-there's a musag in klal yisroel of Mishkal - some times you need to do somthing, but knowing when, and how . (story of the Sar Shalom, who's elderly mother was only willing to eat what her Shalom'ke ate. On peasach he ate gebrochts, so she would eat the matza). Right, the kavod of the rebbe is very, very important. But for this you couse an almana pain? Metzaer Yesomim? Pekudos, everything lo plug, no exceptions. estranging children from their parents. people are crying. Every tear from a yid, SHaarei Dimaos Lo Yinalu...Shrekt zach nisht? (have you no fear?) no pachad? You think this isn't going to come back to haunt you? You think you're not going to suffer? The torah says "shmoe eshma tzakaso...".....people are crying....(and they say) "its gornisht, WE"RE nirdafim, they're rodfim!", what is this jokes? this is a game? They won't have nachas from their children, that I can say. Kinder that were torn from their parents, sitting on mizrach, getting kavod becuase people are telling them it's the right thing to do...not to go to their mothers levaya, fathers levaya...and then in 20 years time you'll have volumes of yaldei ger, malshinim(?). It'll come to haunt them. A child must have a father, a mother, yasmus is a tragedy. It's not going to end well for them. The RbS"O doesn't give siyata dishmaya for such things. It's not a mehalach!
-difference between the two side.
       -Sometimes a minority controls. This Vaade has a few eidel yidden, they can't say anything, they can't stand up to it...one is mechazek the other, this must be the right thing to do, and they quell their guilty conscience, to bring out the lowest element in people.
       -The other eida. Rav Shaul demands Romemus Hanefesh, he demands it, talks about it, lives with it. he refuses to speak negatively. He himself is a Groise Mentch, a talmid chochom amiti, he is a baal madreiga, and kederech haRuchnius its mashpia on all his people. They're the same people, they come from the same crowd, why are the so different? On this side there's a "vaade" and on this side there's a adam gadol who demands romemus from his tzibur..... Abaal kishron nifla.... and people connect with him and are mashpia ltov
-You're eida creates that people need to make gomel with shem/malchus and you make a joke about it...pasuk in navi yeshaya you don't want to understand because then you'll need to do teshuva...the r eibishter sees all
-this has to be something that doesn't happen in klal yisreol, a one time aberration...
-maybe this happened to publicize Rav shaul to the rest of klal Yisroel. There are many great chassidishe RY that the rest of the world doesnt hear of (brought examples...), mistome by chassidim they've never heard of R' Nachum...
-his misnagdim are causing his growth in the world...(mashal like tzefardeia was spread by the metzriim themselfs)
-what is this vaade worried about? he doesn't want to be rebbe. he want's to be a RY. The greatest kavod for Ger would have been for him to be their RY!
-you see in his the gadlus of a talmid chacham amiti, not intrested in the pettyness of lo sikom v'lo sitor...
-how sad it is that the hemshech of the gadlus of pshischa and kotzke has become...mesiras nefesh for narishkeiten...madeup stories...
-how Rav Shilo Raphael (from Mosad Harav Kook - grandson of Rav Maimon - Mizrachi) became a Gerer chossid...

« Last edited by yfr bachur on June 18, 2022, 07:51:48 PM »

Author Topic: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"  (Read 40687 times)

Offline chff

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2022, 02:38:42 PM »
Just curious, where was everyone when the fights in satmar and ponovizh etc were in the headlines ? Why is it that suddenly there are so many rabonim speaking out against it.
P.S. I definitely think its about time they speak up, question is just what triggered the response this time more than the others.
I grew up and all the other chasidus made fun how we Satmar fight etc

Till they started within themselves

Offline eli1571

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2022, 02:52:17 PM »
Obvious difference is that most of the other physical fights took place before social media was widespread.

ponovizh was till recently with social media so was satmar  e.g. bnei brak

Offline eli1571

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2022, 02:54:02 PM »
These things have happened before, but in my memory, not as famous and widespread. Here it is embroiling so many people.

These are pictures I took more than 10 years ago, after a group of about 5 chassidim beat someone up really badly...










That doesn't answer the question it just proves a point, I think we all have certain streak of . . . against ger deep in us and whenever they did something it was blamed on the higher ups etc. Vs in other places

Offline EliJelly

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2022, 02:55:57 PM »
I grew up and all the other chasidus made fun how we Satmar fight etc

Till they started within themselves
The funny thing is that they don't even try to learn the lessons from Satmar - violence never work, it actually builds your opponent. All these new fights starting over from A, beating and pogromming etc. You aren't accomplishing anything, you're just growing support for the opposition and you are making a fool of yourself in the process.

As an aside, what is mind boggling in this case is that RSA isn't contesting anything of Ger, not his buildings or organizations etc, unlike the other disputes. These people are being beaten just because they thought that in 2022 freedom of choice is a given.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 02:59:27 PM by EliJelly »

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2022, 02:57:17 PM »
Never has such violence been sanctioned explicitly by HQ.
It literally came from the top.

Also, all the others for the most part were yerusha fights. There is no yerusha fight here.
Which is the question here, I might be naive, who says it comes from the top, isn't it 2 sides of propaganda with one blaming the other that everything comes from the top, every key ill a that fought those on top knew everything that went on ?
And technically this is also yerusha style fight over ger chasidus without taking the name.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2022, 02:58:58 PM »
I don't believe anything else comes close to Ger's organized Mafia-style tactics. How shameful.
Sadly, the others aren't far behind, just tune in to the politics of the few big kehillos that split

Offline eli1571

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2022, 03:00:21 PM »
Most of you are young.
Research Satmar violence against other chassidim in Williamsburg and Lubavitch in about the 70's.
And against all other chasidos in Williamsburg, and then between each other.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2022, 03:00:34 PM »
Most of you are young.
Research Satmar violence against other chassidim in Williamsburg and Lubavitch in about the 70's.
And against all other chasidos in Williamsburg, and then between each other.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2022, 03:03:25 PM »
Sadly, the others aren't far behind, just tune in to the politics of the few big kehillos that split
Please don't play devils advocate here. RSA isn't contesting anything and this is NOT a split, it's just a breakaway with no claims to any properties or buildings. People can have the right to choose who they want no matter where they originally "beonged to". It's disgusting that this is happening.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2022, 03:05:02 PM »
All these whataboutisms are despicable, disgusting, and wrong.


Offline EliJelly

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2022, 03:05:41 PM »
And against all other chasidos in Williamsburg, and then between each other.
And from advocate to prosecutor. Satmar had no frictions at all with most kehillos in Williamsburg whatsoever. Besides for the fact that another wrongdoing doesn't make it any less disgusting.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2022, 03:36:37 PM »
Assuming OP didn't realize the thread title is a quote as it is not in quotation marks.
Thought I was paraphrasing but it is indeed a direct quote. Thanks for correcting.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2022, 03:39:45 PM »
Thought I was paraphrasing but it is indeed a direct quote. Thanks for correcting.
Thank you for opening Pandora's box.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2022, 03:41:06 PM »
That doesn't answer the question it just proves a point, I think we all have certain streak of . . . against ger deep in us and whenever they did something it was blamed on the higher ups etc. Vs in other places
I think the difference is that the higher ups large a clear trail as Rav Uren Reich mentions. The Vaad made robo calls, thinly veiled invitations to violence, calls to spouses urging them to divorce, and children urged to cut off their parents etc not just individuals or even plausible deniability.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2022, 03:44:58 PM »
Thank you for opening Pandora's box.
Do you think the world will be a better place if we keep silent as  a gadol and his followers are harassed and any mention of it is obscured and the media flooded with paid PR about Gerrer bechinos and the like and pressured to keep it quashed? Rav Reich doesn’t. Show me daas Torah to the contrary and I be happy to follow.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2022, 04:00:54 PM »
Do you think the world will be a better place if we keep silent as  a gadol and his followers are harassed and any mention of it is obscured and the media flooded with paid PR about Gerrer bechinos and the like and pressured to keep it quashed? Rav Reich doesn’t. Show me daas Torah to the contrary and I be happy to follow.
I'm not arguing with you. I genuinely appreciate the fact that you have the guts to bring up this discussion.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2022, 04:08:48 PM »
I'm not arguing with you. I genuinely appreciate the fact that you have the guts to bring up this discussion.
So long as this thread focuses on the specific events of the past few years as Rav Reich did I am good. If anyone want to disparage any derachin or minhagim or the like start your own thread and give your own din vicheshbon.

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2022, 04:18:08 PM »
I hope you are this Rav Moshe Green, or at least as big as he was, because otherwise I don't think you should be talking about Rav Uren Reich like that.

Say you disagree. Don't go compare him those groups.

i was not comparing R' Reich to these groups. I'm comparing those who post and repost these things as those that felt that in the past they were "Chayav" to go against the Torah. This is a totally unnecessary discussion for 95% of us. We don't have them being Eidim and we don't have them daven in our shuls... so why are we even discussing matters that don't pertain to us at all? Can someone give me a source trashing a group like this?

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Re: We must talk about what happened in Ger- Rav Uren Reich
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2022, 04:28:45 PM »
i was not comparing R' Reich to these groups. I'm comparing those who post and repost these things as those that felt that in the past they were "Chayav" to go against the Torah. This is a totally unnecessary discussion for 95% of us. We don't have them being Eidim and we don't have them daven in our shuls... so why are we even discussing matters that don't pertain to us at all? Can someone give me a source trashing a group like this?
OMG. Sorry to publicly disparage you, but if I've ever seen the textbook definition of a Chasid Shoiteh it would be this post.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2022, 04:35:17 PM »
Please don't play devils advocate here. RSA isn't contesting anything and this is NOT a split, it's just a breakaway with no claims to any properties or buildings. People can have the right to choose who they want no matter where they originally "beonged to". It's disgusting that this is happening.
No one is being the devils advocate, I guess that's a matter of how you look at chasidos, which is very different by Polish origins and hungary.