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A (unauthorized) write up of what Rav Reich stated in his Macha. I definitely did not write every word he said, but hopefuly its accurate
-regardless of what people are saying, nothing like this has happened before, red lines have been crossed
-we don't need to hear both sides and there's no tayna "don't mish in our machlokes"
-The reason we need to be moche is: Haroeh Soteh Bikilkola Yazor Atzmo Min Hayayin: because we get affected that we realize such a thing is possible: a pirtzas Geder (quote from Rav Aharon's Macha on the mevaze of the Brisjker Rav
-Even though the waring parties will not hear the macha, and even if they do they'll ignore it, need to be moche

-There are things that must be totally beyond the realm of possibility (his mashal was a conversation in middle of silent amida)
-A Yid who hits another Yid is a Rasha, pasul l'eidus, chiyuv malkos, and does not count for a minyan.
-You can play games and say you're a nirdaf, doesn't change anything, Zos HaTorah Eino Muchlefes. Those involved are pasul leidus and don't count for a minyan.
-There's a story with the Chidushei Harim: in short The gabbi hit one of the chassidim who wanted to enter when the rebbe was unavailable. Later the Rebbe told the gabbi to bring a Minyan, the gabbai brought 8 more, the rebbe said where's the minyan? the gabbai said theres 10. The rebbbe said "you hit a Yid, you don't count for minyan" The gabbai answered "I did it for the kavod of the Rebbe!" The Rebbe answered "This is not a Kavod for me! This is is (bizayon)"
-It's a group of people who are doing what they think is kavod for their rebbe
-doesn't think that the rebbe has any idea what their doing "for his kavod"
-the rebbe is a continuation of gedolei gedolim. (he went on for several minutes praising in turn each of the shalsheles Gur including the current rebbe)
-what happened is a bizayon for the rebbe, chazer treif.
-It's not the first time that a Yid hit another Yid. This is different. This was a POGROM. and that hasn't happened before. Five yungerlite made Gomel w/ shem and malchos because of a Pogrom made by Yidden with Spodiks. "That's a Bizayon for the Rebbe, a Bizayon for Ger, a Bizayon for me, and a Bizayon for you, a Bizayon for Kol Beis Yisroel"
-"Yidden should beseige a shul, and the people inside should be afraid they're going to be killed? Yidden? Pesulei Eidus! Mechalilei Shabbos! …It's a stain on the whole nation!"
-The claim "it was spontaneous": Kristalnach from the German point of view: We were nirdafim, the Jews were after them, they were sovel, it was terrible, they couldn't anymore. They waited for a ruse. The assassination of a German diplomat in Paris by a jewish boy. The German goverment announced in code: We cant take the achrayus of containing those people who were outraged by what the jews did here and there, we won't be able to contain them anymore."
So too here. Some one did something. It's not clear what exactly was the "great avla" that he did. Comes a "rav" says "Nisbakashti limsor Meis HaVaad Haelyonim (they're not elyonim - they're underworld people!) Limsor: that we have acted till now with so much savlonus...such restraint, everyone knows, they've been rodef us we've been niddafim...." [You remember these nirdafim, 10 rabbanim came to America when Rav Shaul was here, because they were Nirdafim...R' Shaul must of been killing people left and right, they were such nirdafim they had to come from eretz yisroel with the hatzalah...], we are nirdafim, and therefore we can't stop people..." and the code was very clear, and from this came the...
-they have no shame? These are Yidden? A rav?, a Vaada? and bachurim and yungerlite standing, hitting, going into peoples house...makkos retzach...Rachmone Letzlan!!!
-what's worse? this, or what's been going on the last few years?
-the fact that there is an orginization in klal yisreol like yeasfeini is a stain on the whole nation. an ORGINISATION that befriends children that they manged to catch, keep away from their parents, Mechanech a gantze dor not to speak to thier father or mother because they (father/mother) chose a different derech, cut off from this one, not to go to simchas...and these are pekudos that you cant tell me are not true because they've PRINTED them, and sent them in Robocalls...Have they no shame?
-there's a musag in klal yisroel of Mishkal - some times you need to do somthing, but knowing when, and how . (story of the Sar Shalom, who's elderly mother was only willing to eat what her Shalom'ke ate. On peasach he ate gebrochts, so she would eat the matza). Right, the kavod of the rebbe is very, very important. But for this you couse an almana pain? Metzaer Yesomim? Pekudos, everything lo plug, no exceptions. estranging children from their parents. people are crying. Every tear from a yid, SHaarei Dimaos Lo Yinalu...Shrekt zach nisht? (have you no fear?) no pachad? You think this isn't going to come back to haunt you? You think you're not going to suffer? The torah says "shmoe eshma tzakaso...".....people are crying....(and they say) "its gornisht, WE"RE nirdafim, they're rodfim!", what is this jokes? this is a game? They won't have nachas from their children, that I can say. Kinder that were torn from their parents, sitting on mizrach, getting kavod becuase people are telling them it's the right thing to do...not to go to their mothers levaya, fathers levaya...and then in 20 years time you'll have volumes of yaldei ger, malshinim(?). It'll come to haunt them. A child must have a father, a mother, yasmus is a tragedy. It's not going to end well for them. The RbS"O doesn't give siyata dishmaya for such things. It's not a mehalach!
-difference between the two side.
       -Sometimes a minority controls. This Vaade has a few eidel yidden, they can't say anything, they can't stand up to it...one is mechazek the other, this must be the right thing to do, and they quell their guilty conscience, to bring out the lowest element in people.
       -The other eida. Rav Shaul demands Romemus Hanefesh, he demands it, talks about it, lives with it. he refuses to speak negatively. He himself is a Groise Mentch, a talmid chochom amiti, he is a baal madreiga, and kederech haRuchnius its mashpia on all his people. They're the same people, they come from the same crowd, why are the so different? On this side there's a "vaade" and on this side there's a adam gadol who demands romemus from his tzibur..... Abaal kishron nifla.... and people connect with him and are mashpia ltov
-You're eida creates that people need to make gomel with shem/malchus and you make a joke about it...pasuk in navi yeshaya you don't want to understand because then you'll need to do teshuva...the r eibishter sees all
-this has to be something that doesn't happen in klal yisreol, a one time aberration...
-maybe this happened to publicize Rav shaul to the rest of klal Yisroel. There are many great chassidishe RY that the rest of the world doesnt hear of (brought examples...), mistome by chassidim they've never heard of R' Nachum...
-his misnagdim are causing his growth in the world...(mashal like tzefardeia was spread by the metzriim themselfs)
-what is this vaade worried about? he doesn't want to be rebbe. he want's to be a RY. The greatest kavod for Ger would have been for him to be their RY!
-you see in his the gadlus of a talmid chacham amiti, not intrested in the pettyness of lo sikom v'lo sitor...
-how sad it is that the hemshech of the gadlus of pshischa and kotzke has become...mesiras nefesh for narishkeiten...madeup stories...
-how Rav Shilo Raphael (from Mosad Harav Kook - grandson of Rav Maimon - Mizrachi) became a Gerer chossid...

« Last edited by yfr bachur on June 18, 2022, 07:51:48 PM »

Author Topic: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"  (Read 40330 times)

Offline m65

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #140 on: June 09, 2022, 12:48:13 PM »
It's not a חובת יחיד, it's a חובת ציבור.
so then anyone who didnt hear krias hatorah today should forsure keep quiet

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #141 on: June 09, 2022, 12:50:06 PM »
Out of thin air. Pick your own threshold for what you consider an influencer.
Who influences the influencers? Why is it dependent on how many followers on social media? What about someone who people may respect their opinion on Ddf?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #142 on: June 09, 2022, 12:50:59 PM »
If anyone is close to him, a condensed talk less than 5 minutes will get a lot more traction than a 45 minute talk, even if it does lose some of the finer points.

You're an excellent writer, why don't you synthesize it in writing and send it to him for editing/approval?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2022, 12:52:35 PM »
right... when you say the rebbe and all his underlings are at fault for encouraging violence you arent trashing a whole chassidus, just a few people...

Sorry, I don't care if he's a talmid chacham and a tzadik, the buck stops with him.
He's responsible for what HIS people do in HIS name.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 01:12:23 PM by yfr bachur »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2022, 12:52:50 PM »
Who influences the influencers? Why is it dependent on how many followers on social media? What about someone who people may respect their opinion on Ddf?

It's about reaching the masses. A shul kiddush might have more people listening than a specific DDF JS thread.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2022, 12:58:34 PM »
Sorry, I don't care if he's a talmid chacham and a tzadik, the buck stops with him.
He's responsible for what HIS people do in HIS name.
And if whats happening is beyond the pale, then HE is very much beyond the pale...
Interesting that Rabbi Reich makes no mention of this.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #146 on: June 09, 2022, 12:59:48 PM »
DDMS post. The only solution

Offline neveryou

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #147 on: June 09, 2022, 01:01:33 PM »


Even non-violent fights were called out to the point the Rebbe refused to come out to a Lag Baomer parade once because of an argument.

That was not an argument, it was worse. He used violence.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #148 on: June 09, 2022, 01:05:12 PM »
Interesting that Rabbi Reich makes no mention of this.
Because he did not see a need to put an emphasis on that point for what he was trying to bring out that we as a tzibbur, everyone one of us should not allow this to happen.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #149 on: June 09, 2022, 01:07:19 PM »
A shul kiddush might have more people listening than a specific DDF JS thread.
Big shul.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2022, 01:11:28 PM »
Big shul.

Anyways, the point is misguided, you never know where one person can influence another and that can be the "shot that is heard around the world". Everyone has to do the most that they can even though they do not know how it would be possible for them to make a difference. This is basic foundational ideas in the Rishonim, I'm not sure where people are getting lost in the weeds here.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2022, 01:12:11 PM »
Because he did not see a need to put an emphasis on that point for what he was trying to bring out that we as a tzibbur, everyone one of us should not allow this to happen.
Then perhaps anonymous DDF’ers shouldn’t either feel the need. I’m no Rav but people really need to be careful about being מזלזל תלמידי חכמים.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #152 on: June 09, 2022, 01:16:48 PM »
Then perhaps anonymous DDF’ers shouldn’t either feel the need. I’m no Rav but people really need to be careful about being מזלזל תלמידי חכמים.

I don't mean to troll and it's off topic but do you still feel this way about Rav Berland?
As a tzibur, at what point of despicable behavior are we no longer afraid of LH and זלזול תלמידי חכמים, and just call it like it is?

His chassidim acted like animals and thugs allegedly in his name, and as far as we know he didn't call them to task in any way.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 03:46:52 PM by yfr bachur »

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2022, 01:27:17 PM »
I don't mean to troll and it's off topic but do you still feel this way about Rav Berland?
As a tzibur, at what point of despicable behavior are we no longer afraid of LH and זלזול תלמידי חכמים, and just call it like it is?

His chassidim acted like animals and thugs allegedly in his name, and he didn't call them to task in any way.
Ask a competent Rav. Most of us are just a bunch of no-nothings regarding these halachos & just decide as we go along what is & isn't permitted, or even required. We’re playing with fire.

Offline yerushabubby

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2022, 01:32:26 PM »
Sorry, I don't care if he's a talmid chacham and a tzadik, the buck stops with him.
He's responsible for what HIS people do in HIS name.

It can unfortunately happen that followers do something wrong in the name of, but without the knowledge of, their Rav.  When this happens, the Rav clearly has an obligation to distance himself from those actions, and chastise the wrongdoers.  It may very well be that the Rebbe did speak to those responsible, but privately. 

In my opinion, since the actions were public, there needs to be some public statement denouncing these acts in order for people to be able to say that the Rebbe bears no responsibility.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2022, 02:45:32 PM »
Sorry, I don't care if he's a talmid chacham and a tzadik, the buck stops with him.
He's responsible for what HIS people do in HIS name.

I'm not well versed with Gerre rebbe's lifestyle but can it be that he's not even aware of what's happening and to what extent? Some rebbes are very sheltered and information goes through the censorship of their gaboim and so called shteeb mentchen.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2022, 02:52:29 PM »
I'm not well versed with Gerre rebbe's lifestyle but can it be that he's not even aware of what's happening and to what extent? Some rebbes are very sheltered and information goes through the censorship of their gaboim and so called shteeb mentchen.
If it is, is that how a leader should live? A Rebbe has to be very aware of what goes on. But that is not a topic for this thread.

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #157 on: June 09, 2022, 03:07:53 PM »
If it is, is that how a leader should live? A Rebbe has to be very aware of what goes on. But that is not a topic for this thread.
Yup, agree.

Famous story with Belzer rov Maharid zl that he wanted to visit someone and the gaboim thought that it's not Lefi kvodoi so they said they can't get a Fiaker (wagon), so he said no problem, I'll walk over then. So they said they can't locate his Kolpick, he said no problem I'll borrow a hat, so they said the peltz is at the tailor and it's cold outside, at that point he just ignored and headed to the door, within seconds there was a peltz, there was a kolpick and a wagon all ready of course.. Satmar rov used to recite this story with saying "That's a true leader!"

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #158 on: June 09, 2022, 03:30:46 PM »
https://twitter.com/moshe_nayes/status/1534979974196867074

More are speaking up. Mainstream Rabbanim of Minchas Yitzchak, including Belz.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Rav Uren Reich: "We must talk about what happened in Ger"
« Reply #159 on: June 09, 2022, 03:44:41 PM »
It can unfortunately happen that followers do something wrong in the name of, but without the knowledge of, their Rav.  When this happens, the Rav clearly has an obligation to distance himself from those actions, and chastise the wrongdoers.  It may very well be that the Rebbe did speak to those responsible, but privately. 

In my opinion, since the actions were public, there needs to be some public statement denouncing these acts in order for people to be able to say that the Rebbe bears no responsibility.
I'm not well versed with Gerre rebbe's lifestyle but can it be that he's not even aware of what's happening and to what extent? Some rebbes are very sheltered and information goes through the censorship of their gaboim and so called shteeb mentchen.

If true, than the inmates are running the asylum, and may be why the talmid of Reb Shaul felt that he had to go to the lengths that he did to get the attention of the rebbe. (Which was what directly sparked the violence)
but sorry, his Rebbitzen is deeply involved in (at least some of) the cases of seperateing families; so go find another bridge to sell me.

There are specific unspeakable actions under discussion, not trashing an entire Chassidus. But if one is part of that Chassidus and feel that criticism is against the entire Chassidus, well then, that's a challenge for you, not the people calling out the horrific things.
right... when you say the rebbe and all his underlings are at fault for encouraging violence you arent trashing a whole chassidus, just a few people...

It is possible that the hamon am needs to make it know to their leaders (especially those in EY) that we will back them against the backlash (and violence - we've already seen that they are willing to resort to that!) that may result from speaking up.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 03:52:03 PM by yfr bachur »