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הכי בבית בעולם

« Last edited by yesitsme on July 07, 2022, 08:34:32 PM »

Author Topic: Israeli Army Problems  (Read 11661 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2022, 12:19:00 AM »
My current passport has never been to Israel. Maybe I can get my name changed to remove my middle name.
Although I can't risk them somehow figuring it out with face detection or something and then getting in even more trouble for trying to defraud them.

Better strategy would probably be to remove the first name and go by middle name only. Also some last names are easy to modify/abbreviate.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2022, 12:23:58 AM »
All the people that I know who made aliyah and then yeridah (my parents included) were very committed to staying and thought there was no chance that they'd move back and create a massive headache for their kids. Many also simply have no idea that it could create problems.

(Granted, even if you stay you might not want to take citizenship, but I imagine there are benefits...)

There are absolutely no benefits to having Israeli citizenship (other than not requiring a costly visa to some countries that like to punish Americans). As mentioned above, one can live a lifetime in Israel without becoming a citizen. It might be a small hassle to decline Israeli citizenship for children born there, but definitely worth it, in cases where that is an option.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2022, 12:26:35 AM »
I agree, my parents were very clueless at the time.

מצווה גדולה לפרסם

You want to go live in the Democratic People's Republic of Israel? Go ahead, just don't get their citizenship, because then you will be subjecting yourself to their laws (and your children to forced citizenship).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline sillypainter

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2022, 12:33:10 AM »
My mother renounced her citizenship on the premise that my father is Satmar and he will divorce her if she doesn't renounce citizenship. I think this is the easiest way out of this pickle. At least that was the case 10+ years ago.

For me, they never had me and my mother together, so they'll never in a million years know that I'm her son. And I was told to use my in-laws names in case I ever get interrogated.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2022, 12:56:17 AM »
My mother renounced her citizenship on the premise that my father is Satmar and he will divorce her if she doesn't renounce citizenship. I think this is the easiest way out of this pickle. At least that was the case 10+ years ago.

For me, they never had me and my mother together, so they'll never in a million years know that I'm her son. And I was told to use my in-laws names in case I ever get interrogated.

You don't need to get that creative. It's as simple as saying I don't what the hassle of carrying two passports when I travel to Israel. Don't want to pay VAT on my car rentals.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline LoLo

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2022, 01:52:48 AM »
You don't need to get that creative. It's as simple as saying I don't what the hassle of carrying two passports when I travel to Israel. Don't want to pay VAT on my car rentals.
Maybe nowadays, it used to be a massive hassle and they were deliberately trying to make it as hard as possible.

A relative of mine did it 10-15 years ago, and took over a year just going from person to another as everyone was sending him somewhere else.

More than your typical Israeli bureaucracy.

Offline m65

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2022, 02:08:51 AM »
Based on what? From what I heard they only keep tabs on your passport number many people can have the same name
passport # change wont help
its name and DOB based

Offline m65

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2022, 02:10:02 AM »
You should also consider suing your parents for making silly moves and putting you in this situation.
then u will be fully and totally undisputable american, and american only

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2022, 04:43:35 AM »
There are absolutely no benefits to having Israeli citizenship (other than not requiring a costly visa to some countries that like to punish Americans). As mentioned above, one can live a lifetime in Israel without becoming a citizen. It might be a small hassle to decline Israeli citizenship for children born there, but definitely worth it, in cases where that is an option.
maybe if you work an American/foreign job i could agree. but for people who wanted to work in Israel legally and not pay extra taxes, becoming Israeli was the way to go. because my wife is Israeli anyways the kids automatically become Israeli and i wasn't messing them over by becoming a citizen.

Offline farvus nisht?

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2022, 06:54:48 AM »
There are absolutely no benefits to having Israeli citizenship (other than not requiring a costly visa to some countries that like to punish Americans). As mentioned above, one can live a lifetime in Israel without becoming a citizen. It might be a small hassle to decline Israeli citizenship for children born there, but definitely worth it, in cases where that is an option.
I disagree. if you plan on living in Israel lifetime there is lots of benefits from Israeli citizenship, 'mechir lmishtaken' for example you can get to buy an apartment for literally 60% of the market value, lots of tax benefits when making aliya, lots of bituach leumi benefits are only for citizens, the old corona times, banking without t"z is a nightmare and many more - regarding OP issue there are askanim for this its a phone call with a bit of... and its all set just look around do you know any frum boy that was drafted by force? 99% are 'mesader' the matter.

Online YitzyS

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2022, 07:48:49 AM »
What if you change your first name to Ahmad or Abdullah?

Offline Darth1

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2022, 08:00:03 AM »
AFAIK they dont let you renounce citizenship if you are in middle of evading the army or anywhere near draftable age. I had a friend who recently had these type of issues and ended up hiring a lawyer in Israel to sort it out for him... There are people who have friends in misrad hapnim and other govermant offices that can change your info in the system (or delete it) for a fee...

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2022, 10:05:23 AM »
I disagree. if you plan on living in Israel lifetime there is lots of benefits from Israeli citizenship, 'mechir lmishtaken' for example you can get to buy an apartment for literally 60% of the market value, lots of tax benefits when making aliya, lots of bituach leumi benefits are only for citizens, the old corona times, banking without t"z is a nightmare and many more - regarding OP issue there are askanim for this its a phone call with a bit of... and its all set just look around do you know any frum boy that was drafted by force? 99% are 'mesader' the matter.

One can have a t.z. pay and receive bituach leumi (I don't know about מחיר למשתכן - nor do I know that it's widely available even for citizens) without becoming a citizen, just a permanent resident. Citizenship means (dubious) right to vote in elections, having an Israeli passport, and being subject to military draft (or restrictions that are an outcome of the draft laws). For the one time tax benefits I would say לא מדובשך ולא מעוקצך (and I'm not sure if those are not available if one chooses to make aliya and gain permanent resident status rather than citizenship).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Aryeh95

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2022, 10:50:49 AM »
AFAIK they dont let you renounce citizenship if you are in middle of evading the army or anywhere near draftable age. I had a friend who recently had these type of issues and ended up hiring a lawyer in Israel to sort it out for him... There are people who have friends in misrad hapnim and other govermant offices that can change your info in the system (or delete it) for a fee...
I tried contacting lawyer and they hear I'm in America and they try to take advantage.
He wanted $10k to start.

Offline Yef

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2022, 11:45:57 AM »
You don't need to get that creative. It's as simple as saying I don't what the hassle of carrying two passports when I travel to Israel. Don't want to pay VAT on my car rentals.
Not from my experience. They didnít want to let my wife leave the country bec she didnít have a Israeli passport. She is born in america with a Israeli father. They only let her leave after some burly Israeli border guy put her on a list saying if she tried to come back into israel w/o Israeli passport they would arrest her on the spot.
Side point: Israeli born in america, their kids do not become citizens, phew!

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2022, 11:58:56 AM »
Make an appointment at the consulate and try to fix it. If it doesn't work you may need to hire an Israeli lawyer that deals with these military cases. The other option is to stay out of Israel for a couple of decades.
I also know someone who was in the same situation and eventually went on a week long vacation to Israel. He was sent to jail for 3 days and after explaining his situation to the judge he was let out with an exemption. Now he can go as often as he wants but I think somehow he soured on the experience and hasn't been there since.

Online Yehudaa

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2022, 12:19:10 PM »
I tried contacting lawyer and they hear I'm in America and they try to take advantage.
He wanted $10k to start.
Maybe @Darth1 can get you a better lawyer's name?

Or Chaim V'chessed can. Or join one of the whatsapp chats in Israel (like Men of Jerusalem) and ask there- I'm sure you'll get some recommendations. I imagine there are American Israeli lawyers who might be easier to work with and less likely to rip you off.

Offline Aryeh95

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2022, 12:23:41 PM »
Make an appointment at the consulate and try to fix it. If it doesn't work you may need to hire an Israeli lawyer that deals with these military cases. The other option is to stay out of Israel for a couple of decades.
I also know someone who was in the same situation and eventually went on a week long vacation to Israel. He was sent to jail for 3 days and after explaining his situation to the judge he was let out with an exemption. Now he can go as often as he wants but I think somehow he soured on the experience and hasn't been there since.
This is the response I got from the consulate, 3 months after I submitted my request.

Online sguitarist18

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2022, 12:28:37 PM »
You must come immediately.

Remember, when you come we're going to arrest you.

Love it.

ANother data point - my wife moved to the US from Israel when she was ~3 - when we got married and moved to Israel, she was told that childbirth is covered by Bituach leumi, and even though non-citizens can get it, she's not eligible as a toshav chozer.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Israeli Army Problems
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2022, 12:43:24 PM »
As a dual citizen, i have had very little issues dealing with the army. My parents moved back when i was was a toddler. Any time I went to Israel before 18, I had no issues as long as I brought my Israeli passport. Upon turning 18 i needed to obtain a new Israeli passport. As I was a dual citizen living abroad, I was granted a status that allowed me to live in Israel for up to a year, as well as visit for no longer than months at a time. When i went to learn in Israel, I applied for an extension (with a letter from my yeshiva), and I was granted a two year extension. When I returned married, i made sure to go in a separate line than my wife (my original extension was still in effect.)

I have been back a number of times since and have yet to encounter an issue.

When I iy"h go back with my kids, i will have them go in with my wife so they don't have to deal with all these extra steps, especially if they would like to live there long term.