Author Topic: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?  (Read 1230 times)

Offline jye

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https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/356245

Can anyone link to the NEJM article they are citing? Every study Ive seen says the opposite.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2022, 08:50:35 AM by jye »

Offline biobook

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2022, 09:52:30 AM »
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/356245

Can anyone link to the NEJM article they are citing? Every study Ive seen says the opposite.
Could be this
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

but the text there is significantly different from the earlier preprint and I don't know what the news writer was relying on.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.01.22271582v1.full

The NEJM article says "Although vaccination has been shown to reduce the incidence of infection and the severity of disease, we did not find large differences in the median duration of viral shedding among participants who were unvaccinated, those who were vaccinated but not boosted, and those who were vaccinated and boosted....Our results should be interpreted within the context of a small sample size,"
 
The supplementary material linked at the bottom gives these numbers:
sample sizes (unvax, vax, triple vax)
omicron infections  9,13,12
delta infections  7,24,1

So the news article "at ten days post-infection, one-third of boosted people (31 percent) were found to still be carrying live, culturable virus" is referring to ...4 people?  Perhaps the graph makes it look like triple vax took longer to stop viral shedding, but they're not saying it's statistically significant. 

I'm not sure we can say anything conclusive about triple vax here, but I think their main point was that a significant number of people are still contagious at 5 days post-infection, so the advice should be to isolate for more than that.

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9045443/
"Vaccinees with mild or asymptomatic infection shed infectious virus 69 days after onset or diagnosis, even after symptom resolution."

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2022, 10:08:30 AM »
Could be this
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

but the text there is significantly different from the earlier preprint and I don't know what the news writer was relying on.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.01.22271582v1.full

The NEJM article says "Although vaccination has been shown to reduce the incidence of infection and the severity of disease, we did not find large differences in the median duration of viral shedding among participants who were unvaccinated, those who were vaccinated but not boosted, and those who were vaccinated and boosted....Our results should be interpreted within the context of a small sample size,"
 
The supplementary material linked at the bottom gives these numbers:
sample sizes (unvax, vax, triple vax)
omicron infections  9,13,12
delta infections  7,24,1

So the news article "at ten days post-infection, one-third of boosted people (31 percent) were found to still be carrying live, culturable virus" is referring to ...4 people?  Perhaps the graph makes it look like triple vax took longer to stop viral shedding, but they're not saying it's statistically significant. 

I'm not sure we can say anything conclusive about triple vax here, but I think their main point was that a significant number of people are still contagious at 5 days post-infection, so the advice should be to isolate for more than that.

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9045443/
"Vaccinees with mild or asymptomatic infection shed infectious virus 69 days after onset or diagnosis, even after symptom resolution."

Good catch. Pretty pitiful sample size considering the global scope and ramifications of the subject matter. To be fair, they were pretty transparent about that, and the resultant inherent weakness in the study.

"Our results should be interpreted within the context of a small sample size, which limits precision, and the possibility of residual confounding in comparisons according to variant, vaccination status, and the time period of infection. Although culture positivity has been proposed as a possible proxy for infectiousness,5 additional studies are needed to correlate viral-culture positivity with confirmed transmission in order to inform isolation periods. Our data suggest that some persons who are infected with the omicron and delta SARS-CoV-2 variants shed culturable virus more than 5 days after symptom onset or an initial positive test."

Offline jye

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2022, 10:12:04 AM »
Could be this
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202092

but the text there is significantly different from the earlier preprint and I don't know what the news writer was relying on.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.01.22271582v1.full

The NEJM article says "Although vaccination has been shown to reduce the incidence of infection and the severity of disease, we did not find large differences in the median duration of viral shedding among participants who were unvaccinated, those who were vaccinated but not boosted, and those who were vaccinated and boosted....Our results should be interpreted within the context of a small sample size,"
 
The supplementary material linked at the bottom gives these numbers:
sample sizes (unvax, vax, triple vax)
omicron infections  9,13,12
delta infections  7,24,1

So the news article "at ten days post-infection, one-third of boosted people (31 percent) were found to still be carrying live, culturable virus" is referring to ...4 people?  Perhaps the graph makes it look like triple vax took longer to stop viral shedding, but they're not saying it's statistically significant. 

I'm not sure we can say anything conclusive about triple vax here, but I think their main point was that a significant number of people are still contagious at 5 days post-infection, so the advice should be to isolate for more than that.

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9045443/
"Vaccinees with mild or asymptomatic infection shed infectious virus 69 days after onset or diagnosis, even after symptom resolution."
Basically a negligible sample size and at the odds with other larger scale studies so pretty much worthless.

Offline biobook

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2022, 10:32:32 AM »
Good catch. Pretty pitiful sample size considering the global scope and ramifications of the subject matter. To be fair, they were pretty transparent about that, and the resultant inherent weakness in the study.

It's a labor-intensive study, going to the homes of 56 patients every day to get a sample and test it.  On any other topic, this would be called a "pilot study" and the results would be leveraged to apply for funds to conduct a more comprehensive study.  But considering the practical ramifications - that recovering patients should be isolated for longer - they tried to get it out there sooner. 

The news writer seems to have also drawn inappropriate conclusions from the Israeli study.  "Meanwhile, Israeli Health Ministry data shows that in the older population (those over the age of 60), having submitted to more COVID shots often correlates to a greater likelihood of becoming infected with COVID."  Obviously, elderly people are more likely to be socializing with more vaccination, so more likely to get infected.

Offline biobook

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2022, 10:33:34 AM »
Basically a negligible sample size and at the odds with other larger scale studies so pretty much worthless.
Can you define "worthless"?

Offline jye

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2022, 10:57:00 AM »
Can you define "worthless"?
A new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) has demonstrated that people who are triple-vaccinated (boosted) against COVID recover significantly more slowly from COVID infection and remain contagious for longer than people who are not vaccinated at all
Worthless as far as the statement above is concerned.

Offline biobook

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2022, 12:23:00 PM »
A new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) has demonstrated that people who are triple-vaccinated (boosted) against COVID recover significantly more slowly from COVID infection and remain contagious for longer than people who are not vaccinated at all
Worthless as far as the statement above is concerned.
I agree.  That is, the quote from israelnationalnews isn't worth much.  The NEJM study does have some value, but not on that issue.

Offline m65

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2022, 01:01:44 PM »
rumor has it that the adobe vaccines dont cause u to spread the disease as much as the WHO vaccines

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Triple vaccinated individuals spread virus longer than unvaccinated?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2022, 01:37:09 PM »
Sadly CDC didn't authorize Adobe vaccines (yet)
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