Author Topic: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim  (Read 31556 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #160 on: September 14, 2022, 12:02:56 AM »
When I was younger, and what I heard from my mother, so my information is from about 1940's in Brooklyn, you trusted the proprietor of a food establishment to police himself.  You were relying on his yiras shomaym and knowledge of halacha.
the corner luncheonette, the butcher, the takeout place. 
It was only as establishments wanted to service customers that didn't know them that formal hashgachas became so established.
So I guess I'm disagreeing with the premise of that Kol Koreh.
And so it was for thousands of years before that point in time.

You know the famous story of the Bal Shemtov when he traveled to a small town and got to a small inn owned by a simple Jew.

The yid offered him a beautiful meal fit for a Rebbe even though it was much more than he could afford to offer, but the Bal Shemtov threw the food on the floor in a rage when he found out the yid wasn't under the OU.

;)
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #161 on: September 14, 2022, 01:02:55 AM »
I'll be the mashgiach

Standing on tip toes looking into Greenland? :D

Offline Zalc

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #162 on: September 14, 2022, 06:38:14 AM »
When I was younger, and what I heard from my mother, so my information is from about 1940's in Brooklyn, you trusted the proprietor of a food establishment to police himself.  You were relying on his yiras shomaym and knowledge of halacha.
the corner luncheonette, the butcher, the takeout place. 
It was only as establishments wanted to service customers that didn't know them that formal hashgachas became so established.
So I guess I'm disagreeing with the premise of that Kol Koreh.
As recent as 12 years ago, there was at least one establishment left in Crown Heights with the same policy and I do not recall it being controversial.
If you asked about the hechsher he’d quip that it was under “Hashgacha Protis”.

IMO hashgacha is a workaround for when one does not have trust/reliance on the person they are buying from.

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #163 on: September 14, 2022, 10:13:24 AM »
And so it was for thousands of years before that point in time.

You know the famous story of the Bal Shemtov when he traveled to a small town and got to a small inn owned by a simple Jew.

The yid offered him a beautiful meal fit for a Rebbe even though it was much more than he could afford to offer, but the Bal Shemtov threw the food on the floor in a rage when he found out the yid wasn't under the OU.

;)
what about the one where a guy walks into a restaurant and theres a huge picture of the Rebbe on the wall. He asks the guy what Hechsher his store is under. The guy points to the picture as if to show him how "frum" he is because the picture is there and asks him what could be wrong, its all glatt kosher etc. etc. and look at the picture! The guy answers back, "if the Rebbe was behind the counter and your picture was on the wall i would have no doubts, but since your behind the counter and the Rebbes on the wall i'm not so certain..."

Offline imayid2

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #164 on: September 14, 2022, 02:09:35 PM »
Harrumph. I type up a response to a snarky retort on a comment of mine, only to find it’s disappeared ;D
I’ll let it go :)

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #165 on: September 14, 2022, 02:11:52 PM »
As recent as 12 years ago, there was at least one establishment left in Crown Heights with the same policy and I do not recall it being controversial.
If you asked about the hechsher he’d quip that it was under “Hashgacha Protis”.

IMO hashgacha is a workaround for when one does not have trust/reliance on the person they are buying from.

Your recollection isn't so good. Unfortunately, politics allowed for that to thrive. The original Ess & Bentch famously refused to get a hechsher back in the day.
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Offline ari3

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #166 on: September 19, 2022, 09:49:18 PM »
When I was younger, and what I heard from my mother, so my information is from about 1940's in Brooklyn, you trusted the proprietor of a food establishment to police himself.  You were relying on his yiras shomaym and knowledge of halacha.
the corner luncheonette, the butcher, the takeout place. 
It was only as establishments wanted to service customers that didn't know them that formal hashgachas became so established.
So I guess I'm disagreeing with the premise of that Kol Koreh.
Hmm on the one hand we have four very respected תלמידי חכמים who are quoting halachic sources and on the other hand we have an anonymous poster on the internet quoting his mother's recollections from the 1940's who disagrees with the premise of what they wrote.

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #167 on: September 19, 2022, 09:52:41 PM »
Hmm on the one hand we have four very respected תלמידי חכמים who are quoting halachic sources and on the other hand we have an anonymous poster on the internet quoting his mother's recollections from the 1940's who disagrees with the premise of what they wrote.

No need to get personal... Halachically valid or not, @ckmk47 makes an interesting point.

Also,

his

how dare you misgender one of our only female DDFers ;D

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Offline ari3

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #168 on: September 19, 2022, 10:00:42 PM »
No need to get personal... Halachically valid or not, @ckmk47 makes an interesting point.
I'm not trying to get personal just pointing out the ridiculousness of her (my apologies) disagreeing with the premise of a kol koreh signed by well respected poskim based on a laymans (or woman's) understanding of things.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #169 on: September 19, 2022, 10:01:33 PM »
Also,

how dare you misgender one of our only female DDFers ;D
My gender has been noted on DDF a few times of late.
I chose a gender neutral name to indicate that I'm not sensitive about it here.
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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #170 on: September 19, 2022, 10:03:55 PM »
after reading thru this thread I have a question that I didn't seem to see answered. Are there any standards protocols etc... that chabad requires of shluchim in the area of kashrus? They do seem to regulate other areas of what shluchim do.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #171 on: September 19, 2022, 11:05:21 PM »
They do seem to regulate other areas of what shluchim do.

Such as?

Offline jj1000

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #172 on: September 19, 2022, 11:14:45 PM »
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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #173 on: September 19, 2022, 11:56:08 PM »
Keep shabbos. 🤣

I should have asked who "they" are.

Offline jj1000

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #174 on: September 20, 2022, 12:07:31 AM »
I should have asked who "they" are.

The central organization that funds all the chabad houses. Suite 3002 was it? If shluchim don't keep a certain standard I heard they pull ALL funding.
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Offline ckmk47

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #175 on: September 20, 2022, 12:10:31 AM »
The central organization that funds all the chabad houses. Suite 3002 was it? If shluchim don't keep a certain standard I heard they pull ALL funding.**
**There is no central funding.


There is a central organization that declares someone a shliach or not.
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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #176 on: September 20, 2022, 07:51:09 AM »
**There is no central funding.


There is a central organization that declares someone a shliach or not.

Missed the sarcasm. There's also no suite 3002.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #177 on: September 20, 2022, 07:59:29 AM »
There's also no suite 3002.

That's what they'd like you to think

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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #178 on: September 20, 2022, 08:11:37 AM »
Missed the sarcasm. There's also no suite 3002.
You do realize many non-Chabad don’t know this, so they have no way of knowing it’s sarcasm without the /s emoji or someone explaining.
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Re: Kashrus of Chabad Shluchim
« Reply #179 on: September 20, 2022, 08:22:49 AM »
As long as it is not Room 101
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