Author Topic: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation  (Read 3509 times)


Offline mucius

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DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2022, 07:22:11 PM »
Apologies if someone has already posted this, but I didn't see it.  Exciting news (proposed, not final yet) about the right to a refund if your flight is delayed, and also credit if you can't fly due to your health or health-related border restrictions, even if the flight is not canceled.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-2022-0089-0004

Offline AsherO

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Re: Flyers lives matter
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2022, 08:10:24 PM »
Seems like big positive changes
https://twitter.com/smkeyes/status/1554930540641259520?s=24&t=1gAyB6O0Df4IbBRlJyFbmA
https://thepointsguy.com/news/flight-refund-rules-dot/?utm_term=editorial&utm_campaign=thepointsguy&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=57B9A162-1370-11ED-B3B0-BBFB4744363C&tw=1

Not fair to penalize the airline for weather delays or other exceptional unforeseen circumstances (e.g. a ground stop). Keep in my consumers end up paying for these.

Also, if travelers arenít protected and guaranteed travel, airlines that will be forced to refund passengers will just cancel the flights, give passengers back their fares (per the newly proposed rules), and leave people stranded.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Flyers lives matter
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2022, 08:31:53 PM »
Not fair to penalize the airline for weather delays or other exceptional unforeseen circumstances (e.g. a ground stop). Keep in my consumers end up paying for these.

How is it penalizing the airlines? They sold a ticket and didnít operate the flight within a reasonable time. Give back the money they paid. Last I checked you donít get rewarded for not doing something wrong. And based on the ďweatherĒ delays weíve seen the past couple years, Iíd rather have non-subjective guidelines.

Quote
Also, if travelers arenít protected and guaranteed travel, airlines that will be forced to refund passengers will just cancel the flights, give passengers back their fares (per the newly proposed rules), and leave people stranded.

I think the exact opposite. Airlines will be held accountable for phony delays, potentially losing all their revenue for the flight. And if weather is bad and itís not their fault, why would they refund everyone when they will easily fill up their delayed flight? When weather is bad, demand goes way up, and supply way down.
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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2022, 10:08:44 PM »
In Hebrew there is a term called עז where you insert something in a negotiation just for the sake of being able to take it out and give the other side a win.

Itís hard to believe airline are going to be mandated to make all their tickets fully refundable. It will have a gigantic cost. Itís one thing for airlines not to profit off pax who arenít flying, but theyíre dependent on premium pax paying more for refundable tickets
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר Ė יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline MeirS

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2022, 10:51:47 PM »


Not fair to penalize the airline for weather delays or other exceptional unforeseen circumstances (e.g. a ground stop). Keep in my consumers end up paying for these.

I hear this side of the story loud and clear and I usually support free trade etc. but I recently had an experience which made me ponder the other side of the story.

I was traveling with my wife and 3 kids under 3. After leaving the gate, the pilot announced that he stopped for 5 minutes to get a rerouting from ATC. 20 minutes later he announced that the new route will require more fuel and we're going back to the gate to refuel. Ended up arriving at our stopover an hour late and missed our connection by 10 minutes. Rerouting was due to bad weather on the way.
We ended up being stuck overnight and arrived at our destination around 20 hours late. Thankfully, I was able to keep my cool and get a hotel with points and was in a position to dish out an additional $50 for food.

I get that legally they're not liable for anything but something has to be put in place for a company to adequately provide for their customers while in their care.

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2022, 11:04:08 PM »
To provide a full refund and to get you to where you booked makes no sense. Basically means a double loss. They should be forced to give something significant to the consumer, but they should not be forced to give full refunds if they fly them.

ETA: Actually it seems like they don't add much besides for full refunds if they took money from the government.

Which airline doesn't give you the option to refund you the money if they make a significant schedule change?

This just makes that a rule. It doesn't seem to say that you get a full refund, plus get taken to your destination. Unless I missed that in the supplement. I just skimmed through it quickly.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2022, 11:08:06 PM by yelped »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2022, 01:30:36 AM »
Iím a bit confused. The proposed full cash refund for delayed flight is even if you take the flight? I understood it to mean that if you cancel your delayed flight you will receive a cash refund instead of a voucher or nothing at all.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 01:34:05 AM »
In Hebrew there is a term called עז where you insert something in a negotiation just for the sake of being able to take it out and give the other side a win.

Itís hard to believe airline are going to be mandated to make all their tickets fully refundable. It will have a gigantic cost. Itís one thing for airlines not to profit off pax who arenít flying, but theyíre dependent on premium pax paying more for refundable tickets

Where do you see that all tickets will be fully refundable? The refund will be for significant delays, and the airlines should be refunding cancelations, regardless of what type of ticket you bought. Thereís no clause proposing that you  can cancel any ticket at any time.
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Offline chff

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2022, 09:46:12 PM »
The DOT has Proposed Rulemaking: Airline Ticket Refunds and Consumer Protections
were you the one who said "we need to do something?" Then do it now!
Submit your comments to the docket (not just about their "refunds" plan, but we need passenger rights like EU261 - Israel's IASL - Canada's APPR

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-2022-0089-0004

Offline elikay

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 10:06:20 PM »
As AsherO said, we will all be paying for this.

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 10:18:28 PM »
As AsherO said, we will all be paying for this.

*paid already.... with the bailouts that they got rid of the workforce

Offline chff

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2022, 04:26:55 PM »
Calling all DDF'er - please take a few moments to comment, the current proposal is not good


Most US airlines (Besides AA/F9/NK/G4/XP/MX) now offer "free" refunds in case of a 2 hour schedule change. DOT is proposing 3hr domestic & 6hr intl, and the airlines will be allowed to impose a fee

The DOT is proposing that travel agents will be liable to provide refunds, when in fact the funds are rules are held by the airlines

no Pax rights are proposed

Kindly submit your comments that
- a 2 hour delay should be the limit, and no fees on refunds
- demand "pax rights" with direct cash compensation like APPR/EU261/IASL
- travel agents should not be liable

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Re: DOT Proposed Rule on Air Passenger Compensation
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2022, 04:27:23 PM »