Author Topic: Canceled charter flight to Almaty  (Read 9115 times)

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2022, 11:02:41 AM »
Not much other than time, flight number and terminal.
What's your point?
Note that the question was when not what.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2022, 01:06:58 PM »
Copy paste from the Uman Charter back in 2016

Beyond me how people can get scammed like this

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/468715/charter-flight-with-hundreds-of-passengers-from-nyc-to-uman-cancelled-hours-before-take-off.html

Article says pax would get refunded, that didn't happen?
Visibly Jewish

Offline chff

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2022, 01:24:48 PM »
Article says pax would get refunded, that didn't happen?

If you mean the Uman story, yes everyone got their money back, but had to pay double in a mad rush trying to get to Uman for Rosh Hashanah - see this thread https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=66070.50


In this case, hopefully @shmu will let us know when he receives his refund

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2022, 02:24:36 PM »
Note that the question was when not what.

The answer is: the day before, and with a flight number but not an airline name

a very sketchy sign

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2022, 08:46:14 PM »
6 years ago there was a charter advertised going to Uman for Rosh Hashanah & subsequently to Israel for Sukkos.

The project started by a Breslev person that meant good, and given that he wanted it should look legit, he partnered with a well known travel agency to sell the tickets.
Unfortunately they were scammed by a broker, and they didn't do due diligence verifying the legitimacy. It had telltale signs that something was off, first the type of aircraft etc, and the price they sold tickets also showed something is way off.
I'm not sure when they figured out that 1 plus 1 does not equal 3, but at a certain point they all knew it's צרות. Breslev people do whatever they could to get to Uman for RH (see Belarus 2020), & at a certain point they could have faced the fact and let 400+ people find alternative flights, but they waited (seriously hoping Moshiach will come that night) till after that (while that day many agents were stuck with group seats that they couldn't sell) and pulled the plug with the excuse "landing permit etc."

I remember telling many people the week before that something is off, and the night before I asked someone that was booked on it "what's the flight number? what terminal? what's the departure time?" and all they could answer me was "I was told to be at JFK 12am, there will be a sign at the entrance to what terminal to go to". At that point I knew it's BS

And I thought lessons learned this won't happen again, but copy paste, it happened again


When we did a charter 2 years ago (yah it also didn't fly for obvious reasons), we were scared to even name it "charter", but luck had it given the circumstances before we even ran ads we were fully booked, and unfortunately it was cancelled, but our clients knew we were legit, there was an airline, with a flight number etc.
The following year BH we made it work great, but still had many people questioning "yah (Chasidish) charters never work out, always cancels at the last minute"

By every charter that we did, I prayed and hope not to get stuck c"v with a real "mechanical" issue, as the consequences would have been very bad, but even more the stigma, especially after this is used in such cases. And every delay we had was accompanied by complaints "Chasidish מעשות", and I try very hard to minimize, and learn from the mistakes, and even when it's out of my (or even the airlines) control, people still get the bad taste of "charters", and with a story like this it's not making the situation better.


In this case I saw a video someone asking one of the arrangers about this charter, and he said they have a private jet of about 220 seats and will fly non-stop, and in the article from COLlive it said "The private charter flight has 2 cabins, with Elite Business class seating and Premium Economy seating", so started the quest to even find such a aircraft, without luck (the only thing that I found was a plan....). Not i'm not sure if they branded "Economy" as "Premium", but interesting nonetheless. In those cases around a week or 2 before the operator would have filed for a permit with the DOT, again noting. And the final sign was when I inquired with someone that was booked the same questions I asked 6 years ago "what's the flight number? what terminal? what's the departure time?", and got an almost similar answer "working on the paperwork, will update you as soon as we know". oh no. And Friday "Motzai Shabbos we will update" and Motzai became Sunday, and then a flight number (but not with a known airline code) and time was provided. But by Monday morning when I was looking for an inbound aircraft and it was invisible, I knew it was a matter of time till the balloon busts, to my surprise they first tried to play a "slight delay" game (I guess hoping for a miracle), and finally 4 hours before the said departure time they unplugged the life support with the "due to an unforeseen mechanical, technical and emergent situation" excuse.

א חרפה און בושה - those who still wanted to make it had to scramble trying to find alternatives etc., and everyone hopes to get their $ back that they paid for - and most of them don't even know they were part of a scam - whoever was the scammer I don't know - but due diligence wasn't done - and trying to wait for a miracle and not calling it off when it was obvious.


« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 08:52:41 PM by chff »

Offline neveryou

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2022, 08:54:50 PM »
6 years ago there was a charter advertised going to Uman for Rosh Hashanah & subsequently to Israel for Sukkos.

The project started by a Breslev person that meant good, and given that he wanted it should look legit, he partnered with a well known travel agency to sell the tickets.
Unfortunately they were scammed by a broker, and they didn't do due diligence verifying the legitimacy. It had telltale signs that something was off, first the type of aircraft etc, and the price they sold tickets also showed something is way off.
I'm not sure when they figured out that 1 plus 1 does not equal 3, but at a certain point they all knew it's צרות. Breslev people do whatever they could to get to Uman for RH (see Belarus 2020), & at a certain point they could have faced the fact and let 400+ people find alternative flights, but they waited (seriously hoping Moshiach will come that night) till after that (while that day many agents were stuck with group seats that they couldn't sell) and pulled the plug with the excuse "landing permit etc."

I remember telling many people the week before that something is off, and the night before I asked someone that was booked on it "what's the flight number? what terminal? what's the departure time?" and all they could answer me was "I was told to be at JFK 12am, there will be a sign at the entrance to what terminal to go to". At that point I knew it's BS

And I thought lessons learned this won't happen again, but copy paste, it happened again


When we did a charter 2 years ago (yah it also didn't fly for obvious reasons), we were scared to even name it "charter", but luck had it given the circumstances before we even ran ads we were fully booked, and unfortunately it was cancelled, but our clients knew we were legit, there was an airline, with a flight number etc.
The following year BH we made it work great, but still had many people questioning "yah (Chasidish) charters never work out, always cancels at the last minute"

By every charter that we did, I prayed and hope not to get stuck c"v with a real "mechanical" issue, as the consequences would have been very bad, but even more the stigma, especially after this is used in such cases. And every delay we had was accompanied by complaints "Chasidish מעשות", and I try very hard to minimize, and learn from the mistakes, and even when it's out of my (or even the airlines) control, people still get the bad taste of "charters", and with a story like this it's not making the situation better.


In this case I saw a video someone asking one of the arrangers about this charter, and he said they have a private jet of about 220 seats and will fly non-stop, and in the article from COLlive it said "The private charter flight has 2 cabins, with Elite Business class seating and Premium Economy seating", so started the quest to even find such a aircraft, without luck (the only thing that I found was a plan....). Not i'm not sure if they branded "Economy" as "Premium", but interesting nonetheless. In those cases around a week or 2 before the operator would have filed for a permit with the DOT, again noting. And the final sign was when I inquired with someone that was booked the same questions I asked 6 years ago "what's the flight number? what terminal? what's the departure time?", and got an almost similar answer "working on the paperwork, will update you as soon as we know". oh no. And Friday "Motzai Shabbos we will update" and Motzai became Sunday, and then a flight number (but not with a known airline code) and time was provided. But by Monday morning when I was looking for an inbound aircraft and it was invisible, I knew it was a matter of time till the balloon busts, to my surprise they first tried to play a "slight delay" game (I guess hoping for a miracle), and finally 4 hours before the said departure time they unplugged the life support with the "due to an unforeseen mechanical, technical and emergent situation" excuse.

א חרפה און בושה - those who still wanted to make it had to scramble trying to find alternatives etc., and everyone hopes to get their $ back that they paid for - and most they know they were part of a scam - whoever was the scammer I don't know - but due diligence wasn't done - and trying to wait for a miracle and not calling it off when it was obvious.
What I don't get is, the charter flight from Miami wasn't run by the same people as the one from NY? and if not then we're in touch with each other I'm sure, bc the organizers of both charters always went to alma ata and arranged charters together other years

How come the Miami one worked out and the one from NY didn't, and the ticket prices were more or less the same amount besides the shluchim from FL that paid half price
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 09:12:12 PM by neveryou »

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2022, 09:00:49 PM »


Haven't these organizers run successful charters in the past?

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2022, 09:04:53 AM »
Haven't these organizers run successful charters in the past?
They have run successful in the past

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2022, 12:44:30 PM »
A family member of mine paid for the charter (against my advice)
Now trying to get him a refund.

The Miami charter was sponsored by a gvir BH, already 24 hours +  before the flight it was on the ground in Miami ready for the crew to rest

NY charter had no flight plans filed, no requests even for permits, no inbound aircraft, and no tail number. It wasn't 'canceled', more accurately it was never ordered and never on to be canceled.
The organizers were advised by professionals (one of them commented before on this thread) who tried helping them but thought they knew better.

I am hoping everyone will be refunded in full...


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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2022, 08:39:58 PM »
Haven't these organizers run successful charters in the past?

I'm not saying c"v the organizers are outright scammers, but either they were scammed by a broker, or they were working on something and started to take bookings before having something confirmed, and tried to get it straighten out.
But one thing is clear, at a certain point they figured out this ain't happening, and that wasn't Monday morning 11am when they posted "a slight delay", it was way earlier. They should have faced the fact at that point so those who wanted to book something else should have ample time and maybe save money on really last minute arrangements, and not shlep it to the last possible moment. And they should be open & honest what happened here, and not blame unforeseen mechanical, technical and emergent situation.

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2022, 10:58:25 PM »
if anyone gets a refund or hears a real timeframe for refunds, please post here

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2022, 10:14:19 AM »
update from the organizers

Quote
It has been a few days since we last sent an update, as we begin to come out of the haze, I would like to try to explain the timeline of events and give an update as to where we are today.
We hired a company as an air charter broker. We booked a flight to operate a A330 from JFK-ALA-JFK 8/15/2022-8/17/2022. After signing the contract, We sent the full wire payment as required.
The morning of the flight the company said they were unable to accomplish the flight because they could not get the permit to land at JFK.
It was discovered that the aircraft operator has a suspended AOC and they did not disclose this prior to offering services and promising they can do the flight.
On Monday 8/15/2022, we recalled the wire, due to that recall the US Bank and the Romanian banks have internal issues to resolve. This is what we have been told.
We are working day and night to ensure the funds are returned fully.
 
I believe imy"h the Rebbe and the Aibishter we will resolve the matter shortly.

For those of you who paid through Bais Shmuel Chabad, we ask you please to be extend us the courtesy of not disputing the funds.
Bais Shmuel joined to help us make it easy for those wanting to pay via Credit Cards and so on, they are not responsible for this chaos.
We promise that EVERY single dollar will be returned! We took this upon ourselves and we will make it right!  We are taking every action needed from all angles to ensure this will be rectified.
We know that Hashem and the Rebbe NEVER stay in debt.

We ask again for a little more time.
Thank you so very much!!


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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2022, 10:35:48 AM »
 
"I believe imy"h the Rebbe and the Aibishter we will resolve the matter shortly."

Elokistim?

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2022, 10:37:53 AM »

"I believe imy"h the Rebbe and the Aibishter we will resolve the matter shortly."

Elokistim?
Cringeworthy, but no.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2022, 11:00:13 AM »
Romanian??
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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2022, 11:03:05 AM »
Romanian??
Yes big scammers are usually outside the reach of the US court system
They also have really good deals on planes, if only you wire them...

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2022, 11:05:48 AM »
So the 787 that was passed around was not it (it came from me based on the flight number)

Quote
We booked a flight to operate a A330 from JFK-ALA-JFK 8/15/2022-8/17/2022.

I have reached out to many trying to figure out what happened, and someone gave me a tail number, which the first results in Google gives you the clear picture

unfortunately simple due diligence wasn't done. Hope everyone at some point gets their refund (Many people that booked have no clue about this and are praising the organizers for trying to do this...)

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2022, 01:25:18 PM »
Yes big scammers are usually outside the reach of the US court system
They also have really good deals on planes, if only you wire them...
Dan is involved ?  ;)

https://simpleflying.com/dan-air-wet-lease-entire-fleet/
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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2022, 01:30:14 PM »
Romanian??

וואָס איז?
 אַ ראָמענער איז נישט קיין פֿאַך?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Canceled charter flight to Almaty
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2022, 01:31:19 PM »
A Romanian borrowed a Siddur it came back with one יקום פורקן missing
Jews ≠ Zionists
Palestinians ≠ Hamas
Satmar ≠ SatmarHQ