Rebbe Lights-and-Siren Escorts

[WonderingYid]

Olympic world records have been broken between licht benching and shkia

At what cost?

[ExGingi]

Olympic world records have been broken between licht benching and shkia

The problem starts with making a לכתחילה habit of not fully accepting Shabbos at licht benching, rather than relying on it once in a while בשעת הדחק. I am just as guilty unfortunately, though not driving.

[chevron]

There was actually a letter to the editor somewhere or something somebody was asking if the halacha that says that if you're rushing to ready for Shabbat and bump into somebody, you're not liable.

So the person writing the question asks does this hold the same if you are driving home like a maniac and you crash into somebody's car and bump into it like denting it.

Are you kidding me...

[WAM]

I don't think he was the safest driver sober.

I would be surprised if any 20 year old on the planet is the "safest driver" on anybody's list.

[Moshe Green]

The problem starts with making a לכתחילה habit of not fully accepting Shabbos at licht benching, rather than relying on it once in a while בשעת הדחק. I am just as guilty unfortunately, though not driving.

for this very reason i try, b"n, not to stop doing any doraissas 20 minutes before shabbos. of course, this isnt so hard becasuse i dont drive to shul erev shabbos.

[drosenberg88429]

I'm not defending anyone, but calling this drunk driving is hyperbole. He was measured at 2.5 times the limit. The limit is for 1 shot. For any regular drinker (and really for almost anyone), less than 3 shots is very far from drunk. He does seem to have been driving recklessly (although 90 mph is likely a completely made up number - they have no way of knowing that), and did something stupid. Many people likely have, when driving too close to shabbos on a deserted road. Yes, he was a reckless irresponsible 20 year old, and ideally nobody should be driving close to shabbos or speeding or driving after having an ounce of alcohol, but let's not make him into a monster or get caught up in the frenzy.

At the end of the day, someone is dead. Alcohol or no alcohol, this isn't a joke, and should be a lesson to everyone in many regards. However, that doesn't necessarily call for throwing the book at a stupid kid in a way of making ourselves feel better that we did something to prevent this.

[jye]

I'm not defending anyone, but calling this drunk driving is hyperbole. He was measured at 2.5 times the limit. The limit is for 1 shot. For any regular drinker (and really for almost anyone), less than 3 shots is very far from drunk. He does seem to have been driving recklessly (although 90 mph is likely a completely made up number - they have no way of knowing that), and did something stupid. Many people likely have, when driving too close to shabbos on a deserted road. Yes, he was a reckless irresponsible 20 year old, and ideally nobody should be driving close to shabbos or speeding or driving after having an ounce of alcohol, but let's not make him into a monster or get caught up in the frenzy.

At the end of the day, someone is dead. Alcohol or no alcohol, this isn't a joke, and should be a lesson to everyone in many regards. However, that doesn't necessarily call for throwing the book at a stupid kid in a way of making ourselves feel better that we did something to prevent this.

Actually .215 is closer to 10 shots and is quite intoxicated.

[drosenberg88429]

Actually .215 is closer to 10 shots and is quite intoxicated.

You are right. After I wrote post I checked up numbers. BAC of .215 would be 3 shots for someone 100lb, but he's presumably more like 140.

[Yehuda57]

but calling this drunk driving is hyperbole.

Couldn't disagree more. Every person is different. Alcohol effects everyone differently. The legal limit will mean intoxication for one and for another you'd never know they had a drink. Heck, even the same person will be affected differently on any given day based on what they ate or how much they slept.

Further, people always downplay how intoxicated they are. People who are obviously intoxicated will proclaim their sobriety in all seriousness. They're not lying, they have no judgment.

Further, there is no way for a third party to really know how intoxicated someone is. Everyone carries themselves differently. I've known people to behave completely normally right up to collapsing in a heap completely wasted. Put such a person behind the wheel and they likely aren't seeing straight, have no judgement, etc.

The "legal limit" is there because you need some sort of measurement for *legal* purposes. But for us, we need to stigmatize *all* driving after drinking. It's literally deadly behavior.

And you're right,

At the end of the day, someone is dead...this isn't a joke, and should be a lesson to everyone.

And it's quite sickening to see all the ecking and becking, "he wasn't drunk, he was just speeding", "he wasn't speeding as much as the police say", or whatever other excuses people will come up with to avoid us having to admit we might have a problem to deal with.

[~King Lake~]

You are right. After I wrote post I checked up numbers. BAC of .215 would be 3 shots for someone 100lb, but he's presumably more like 140.

And 3 shots for some people are dead drunk

[S209]

I'm not defending anyone, but calling this drunk driving is hyperbole.

You’re way off. His BAC was through the roof, .215 is blackout drunk.

let's not make him into a monster or get caught up in the frenzy.

I attribute this to stupidity not malice but it was a terribly reckless and ultimately deadly mistake.

that doesn't necessarily call for throwing the book at a stupid kid in a way of making ourselves feel better that we did something to prevent this.

At the end of the day, someone is dead.

[moko]

You’re way off. His BAC was through the roof, .215 is blackout drunk.
I attribute this to stupidity not malice but it was a terribly reckless and ultimately deadly mistake.

it wasn't a mistake. It was gross negligence. Big difference.

[ExGingi]

Updated.

I tried "Rebbe Escorts" first but that wasn't much better 😜.

Could the thread be more appropriately renamed "Deadly reckless driving in our communities" or something of the sort.

[CountValentine]

Could the thread be more appropriately renamed "Deadly reckless driving in our communities" or something of the sort.

How about "Deadly reckless driving in ALL communities"

This is one thread I won't speak my mind.

[zh cohen]

You are right. After I wrote post I checked up numbers. BAC of .215 would be 3 shots for someone 100lb, but he's presumably more like 140.

Not sure how you are doing your math, but it is still way off.

[moko]

This is one thread I won't speak my mind.

why's this one different

[S209]

Not sure how you are doing your math, but it is still way off.

+1

At .3 you’re considered to have (potentially fatal) alcohol poisoning and usually get your stomach pumped. The legal limit is a couple of shots for most people, which is already enough to get some people a little tipsy.

[jye]

You’re way off. His BAC was through the roof, .215 is blackout drunk.
I attribute this to stupidity not malice but it was a terribly reckless and ultimately deadly mistake.

Correct.

[ExGingi]

How about "Deadly reckless driving in ALL communities"

This is one thread I won't speak my mind.

Should it specify "by young adults" which seems to be a common issue?

[WAM]

I'm not defending anyone, but calling this drunk driving is hyperbole. He was measured at 2.5 times the limit. The limit is for 1 shot. For any regular drinker (and really for almost anyone), less than 3 shots is very far from drunk. He does seem to have been driving recklessly (although 90 mph is likely a completely made up number - they have no way of knowing that), and did something stupid. Many people likely have, when driving too close to shabbos on a deserted road. Yes, he was a reckless irresponsible 20 year old, and ideally nobody should be driving close to shabbos or speeding or driving after having an ounce of alcohol, but let's not make him into a monster or get caught up in the frenzy.

At the end of the day, someone is dead. Alcohol or no alcohol, this isn't a joke, and should be a lesson to everyone in many regards. However, that doesn't necessarily call for throwing the book at a stupid kid in a way of making ourselves feel better that we did something to prevent this.

Do you see any situation where you would drive after 5-6 shots? I've seen many people think it's ok to drive after drinking a few shots. I think drunk driving is something that is unfortunately not taken seriously enough - both by law enforcement and regular ppl.