Rebbe Lights-and-Siren Escorts

[Eb228]

There was a very moving/chilling/meaningful video that I watched before getting my permit. It was a story of a bochur who drank too much at a chasunah... Does anyone remember what it's called?

We were shown it too in Yeshiva during Presidets week English time, with a video intro by Rabbi Dr AJ Twerski on the subject

[biobook]

3rd graders?

"Highway safety" doesn't refer to the mechanics of driving, and isn't restricted to proper speed on the GSP.  Not sure, but I think they started with that name because the original concern was with children in rural areas whose early morning walk to school was along the highway, but now it just means safety around moving vehicles. 

What age do you think is appropriate to teach children not to run into the street from between parked cars?  To walk on the left side of the road, facing traffic, even if you're on a deserted country road in the middle of the night and don't hear any cars coming?  That a person walking at night in black hat, suit, and shoes may be invisible to a driver? 

You'll say that parents teach their kids these things, but we don't tell schools to refrain from teaching kids about Shabbos because we do that at home.  Learning is more effective when kids hear similar things repeatedly and from different sources.  And parents vary in their appreciation of safety on the road and their ability to convey this to their kids.

Bicycle safety is one of the topics that's covered in those classes, but TBH I don't know what else is recommended.  The examples I gave above are just situations that I happen to know of where children were hit by cars.

Teaching teens to not drive recklessly is much harder, of course, and I'm not offering solutions.  But I'm sure the yeshivas can convince young drivers to avoid speeding and tailgating, just like they convince them to avoid other sinful behaviors.

[ExGingi]

Teaching teens to not drive recklessly is much harder, of course, and I'm not offering solutions.  But I'm sure the yeshivas can convince young drivers to avoid speeding and tailgating, just like they convince them to avoid other sinful behaviors.

Such as drinking...

[biobook]

Such as drinking...

Actually I was thinking of "such as looking at a photograph of a woman's face."

[YitzyS]

Actually I was thinking of "such as looking at a photograph of a woman's face."

[drosenberg88429]

Actually I was thinking of "such as looking at a photograph of a woman's face."

What's their success rate on that? You know how rampant those issues are among Jewish teenagers, even with our best efforts to protect and shelter them and prevent it? For the most part, I would think that we do make a concerted effort to educate against and deem unacceptable alcoholism and drugs, and I think that we're generally more successful than the population at large, just like we are with inappropriate imagery. That being said, teenagers are teenagers, humans are humans, and our success isn't going to be 100%.

[ExGingi]

What's their success rate on that? You know how rampant those issues are among Jewish teenagers, even with our best efforts to protect and shelter them and prevent it? For the most part, I would think that we do make a concerted effort to educate against and deem unacceptable alcoholism and drugs, and I think that we're generally more successful than the population at large, just like we are with inappropriate imagery. That being said, teenagers are teenagers, humans are humans, and our success isn't going to be 100%.

I think @biobook was being sarcastic, just like I was when I wrote

Such as drinking...

[aygart]

Based on what a see on a regular basis in Lakewood, it had something to do, but not the main reason.

I am on South Lake Drive very regularly. The "wild" drivers are not going more than 50.

[YitzyS]

I am on South Lake Drive very regularly. The "wild" drivers are not going more than 50.

I don't think that it's physically possible to go 100 on that road.

[WonderingYid]

I'm not sure if your familiar with that road, but it's very windy and doing 100MPH is extremely reckless.

I am on South Lake Drive very regularly. The "wild" drivers are not going more than 50.

Hence.

I don't think that it's physically possible to go 100 on that road.

Definitely not in a Chevy Malibu.

[biobook]

That being said, teenagers are teenagers, humans are humans, and our success isn't going to be 100%.

Agreed, success in education is never 100%.  But our effort should be close to that, no?

Traffic safety was one of the topics that the NYS Education Dept has proposed should be required, but yeshivas are apparently opposed to such requirements. 

I'm reading the articles linked to the Aguda site, one of which includes this paragraph. Why would adding these topics to the yeshiva curriculum be a problem?

"The proposed regulations also require nonpublic schools to provide instruction in New York State history; instruction in health education regarding alcohol, drugs, and tobacco abuse; instruction in highway safety and traffic regulation; instruction in fire drills and in fire and arson prevention; and instruction in hands-only cardiopulmonary resuscitation and the use of an automated external defibrillator."

https://www.lohud.com/story/opinion/2022/03/18/ny-regents-plans-nonpublic-schools-terrible/7088892001/

My quote yesterday was from the FAQ that where they trivialized the inclusion of traffic safety:

Some rebbeyim consider it inappropriate to spend time on this sort of education:
"...we could all giggle about how the state requires 3rd graders to be fluent in “highway safety and traffic regulation.”"
https://yeshivosbychoice.org/the-new-substantial-equivalency-regulations-what-every-yeshiva-parent-needs-to-know/

Maybe this incident will inspire yeshivas to develop appropriate traffic safety education for all grades.

I would argue that teaching safety around traffic, drugs and alcohol is even more important than teaching boys that it's sinful to have photos of women in newspapers and books, yet yeshivas all seem to have time for the latter.

[aygart]

Agreed, success in education is never 100%.  But our effort should be close to that, no?

Traffic safety was one of the topics that the NYS Education Dept has proposed should be required, but yeshivas are apparently opposed to such requirements. 
My quote yesterday was from the FAQ that where they trivialized the inclusion of traffic safety:
I would argue that teaching safety around traffic, drugs and alcohol is even more important than teaching boys that it's sinful to have photos of women in newspapers and books, yet yeshivas all seem to have time for the latter.

I think it is more likely that the explanation for the wording was lost on them.

"Highway safety" doesn't refer to the mechanics of driving, and isn't restricted to proper speed on the GSP.  Not sure, but I think they started with that name because the original concern was with children in rural areas whose early morning walk to school was along the highway, but now it just means safety around moving vehicles. 

[drosenberg88429]

Agreed, success in education is never 100%.  But our effort should be close to that, no?

Traffic safety was one of the topics that the NYS Education Dept has proposed should be required, but yeshivas are apparently opposed to such requirements. 
My quote yesterday was from the FAQ that where they trivialized the inclusion of traffic safety:
I would argue that teaching safety around traffic, drugs and alcohol is even more important than teaching boys that it's sinful to have photos of women in newspapers and books, yet yeshivas all seem to have time for the latter.

Can we not rehash and bring in the proposed equivalency regulations? Our opposition was not to any particular content, as much as it was about them gaining a foothold and imposition rights of any sort into our education. They could purpose a curriculum with mandatory provided anti murder material (a concept which we obviously extremely strongly agree with and in theory is consistent with our religion), and we would be equally opposed to their intrusion. In fact, we would fight tooth and nail if they would mandate that we teach our boys that it's sinful to have photos of women in newspapers and books. The point was that we, and only we, get to decide on what to include in our curriculum, and giving them rights to mandate the exact educational content in any form is a slippery slope. That is a totally different discussion than our community's stance on traffic safety.

[drosenberg88429]

Btw, I honestly feel nervous when going 35 on parts of South Lake Drive. Maybe it's because I'm not intimately familiar with every curve and inch of the road, but the road is not an extremely safe road at parts. It's not exactly New Hampshire.

[biobook]

I think it is more likely that the explanation for the wording was lost on them.

Yes!  Thank you for making my point. 

The argument they made was that we don't have time for such secular studies because our students concentrate on "close reading of texts, literary analysis, logical reasoning..."  https://agudah.org/substantial-equivalency-opposition-comment-by-educators/.

I didn't know myself what was implied by "highway safety" until I looked it up on that day when I was trying to write the requested letter to NYSED.  I felt I was being asked to copy a letter written by people who had not put in the effort to closely read and understand the texts of the regulations and other online material.

[biobook]

Can we not rehash and bring in the proposed equivalency regulations?

Yes.  Exiting South Lake Drive.  Bye.

[drosenberg88429]

Agreed, success in education is never 100%.  But our effort should be close to that, no?

Btw, question:

What percentage of our community do you think is regularly getting inebriated between the ages of 20-25? What percentage of those people go on to operate motor vehicles in an inebriated state? How do you think these numbers compare to the general population?

What percentage of our community do you think is regularly getting high on narcotics or mind altering substances (including marijuana) between the ages of 20-25? How do you think that compares to the general population?


What percentage of our community do you think is regularly viewing inappropriate materials to the degree that is deleterious to their spiritual growth between the ages of 20-25? How do you think that compares to the general population?


Judging by the percentages in each of the above responses, which issue do you think is the most prevalent in our community, and should therefore require the most focus?

[drosenberg88429]

Yes.  Exiting South Lake Drive.  Bye.

We went through this numerous times in the educational standards regulation thread. It is a totally separate debate, with two valid sides (obviously I cannot claim to be neutral on that subject), and has nothing to do with this topic, in my opinion.

[aygart]

Either way, the title of this thread has nothing to do with where it has gone. I think it is time for another name change.

[drosenberg88429]

When I took a mandatory 5 hour course before procuring a vehicular license, the instructor said that the most common question he receives is "How long is your 5 hour course", (which is pretty similar to asking to "What color was George Washington's white horse?"). The answer was 2 hours, because half of the curriculum was regarding drinking and driving, which is extremely uncommon in our circles. (The regular driving safety part of the curriculum was pretty draconian and fire and brimstone, btw - the presentation didn't pull any punches or gloss over that.) The reason he gave is that while our community is certainly not immune to problematic drinking, our drinking habits are that when people drink, they tend to get pretty drunk, without any thoughts of operating a motor vehicle. It's not common in our culture for one to drive to a bar or party on the way home from work, drink a few shots, and then drive home. For the most part, in my experience, I think this is pretty accurate. Drinking is a serious and unfortunately common issue in our circles. Hazardous driving is a serious and unfortunately common issue in our circles. Drinking and driving, however, is very uncommon, and not at all a systemic issue. This story was an anomaly and the exception, not the norm, to the best of my knowledge. I wouldn't blame it on our educational system's derelictions.