Author Topic: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience  (Read 4336 times)

Offline IYM

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My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« on: August 19, 2022, 09:33:14 AM »
Posting from the sky…

I booked flights for my family from BOS>LAX months before our flight in August.  For logistical reasons, I had to book our family in two reservations.  One reservation was myself with 4 of my kids while the 2nd was my wife with our 6 year old daughter.  I was careful to pay extra for seats to ensure that we are all seated together- in one row with 1 child seated in the aisle of the seat ahead of us.

When we arrived at the airport, we discovered that my wife’s reservation was completely skewed.  They had separately seated her and separately my daughter in different ends of the plans, away from our row.

I went to the gate desk to show them my original email confirmations for the reservations showing the seat selections I had chosen.  They acknowledged that it must have been an error on JetBlue’s part.  They proceeded contacting customers asking them to move seats so that at least my wife and daughter could sit together.  Nobody wanted to budge.

Meanwhile, I sat with my 4 kids in our reserved row.  The entire plane was full…except for at least 5 seats in Mint, with at least one block of two empty seats next to each other.

I approached the flight agents and asked why wouldn’t they give those two seats to my wife and daughter?  They replied that those seats cost extra money.  I pointed out that the entire plane was awaiting takeoff because of JetBlue’s error and yet they wouldn’t give us the only open seats together so that the plane can take off?!  One of flight attendants then rudely retorted- “actually this is YOUR issue not ours!”.

The flight attendants continued scurrying about trying to find seats together until a kind elderly couple asked us what was going on and then offered to be separated on the plane from each other so that my wife and daughter can sit together.

The icing on the cake?  Two of our video screens now don’t work and the WiFi is dicey…



Offline AJK

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 10:08:46 AM »
Annoying, maybe. Harrowing, not so much.

As a general matter, reservations need to be babysat so as to avoid many issues, including ones like these. Right or wrong, one cannot book months in advance and simply hope things remain intact -- planes are subbed, schedules are changed, and tickets are jacked.

And, there was no way you were getting bumped to Mint due to this seating issue.

Safe travels, tho!
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Offline jj1000

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2022, 10:13:05 AM »
Annoying, maybe. Harrowing, not so much.

As a general matter, reservations need to be babysat so as to avoid many issues, including ones like these. Right or wrong, one cannot book months in advance and simply hope things remain intact -- planes are subbed, schedules are changed, and tickets are jacked.

And, there was no way you were getting bumped to Mint due to this seating issue.

Safe travels, tho!
Yep, paying and reserving specific seats doesn't actually guarantee those seats. A common misonception by passangers.

Stories like this probably happen thousands of times daily. Happend to me, my last 3 times flying each time.
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Offline Sam 77

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2022, 10:31:36 AM »
It was a good click bait though ;)

Offline yuneeq

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2022, 10:35:05 AM »
Yep, paying and reserving specific seats doesn't actually guarantee those seats. A common misonception by passangers.

Stories like this probably happen thousands of times daily. Happend to me, my last 3 times flying each time.

Well that’s ridiculous. You paid extra for a specific seat, they should not be allowed to change it without an immediate notification and automatic compensation. Clearly if this is such a common issue, passengers are being systematically robbed and abused. Add it to the DD bill of rights.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 11:11:08 AM »
Passengers are being systematically robbed and abused.
Welcome to air travel in the 2000's...
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Offline moko

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 11:43:59 AM »
Once google finishes chipping all of us and our lives are an open book, I propose reciprocity in life.
When shopping at a grocery store....
Car rental employees pay a separate facility usage fee
Airline employees have their groceries cancel after they checkout and receive a refund 36 months later.
Etc

Offline yuneeq

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 11:52:07 AM »
Personally, I was not aware that selecting a seat does not guarantee a seat barring extenuating circumstances. I was also not aware that I wouldn’t be notified about it, or difficult to get reimbursed if it changes. I would like to think that vast majority of travelers think this way, barring high-level travel-buffs.

But honestly who cares what any traveler thinks (the airlines certainly don’t), as long as there is proper disclosure. So I decided to take a look.

Here’s how you book JetBlue seats:

Step 1.



Step 2. Takes you to a page where you can choose your seat. Once selecting, it gives you details about the seat.




Step 3. Back to the seat selection screen, and a button pops up directing us to the next booking step to select “extras”. Note how until this point there is no disclosure indicating that seats are not actually reserved.



Step 4. We completed seating selection, and now prompted to select extras, but wait! Did we spot a tiny disclosure in the seating selection section? Well, surely a disclosure that only appears in previously completed section after moving to the next section can’t be enough. But did it really just appear - it must’ve been there the whole time. Let’s look at step 1 again…and nope. And going through the rest of the booking process, that’s the only disclosure you will ever have a chance of seeing.



Let’s help JetBlue write a proper disclosure, because their practices will certainly not change. Putting it in the seat details section seems the most appropriate, at the very least.


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Offline IYM

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2022, 11:55:49 AM »
Thanks all for your replies.  I am surprised to hear that this type of incident is commonplace.  In hindsight, I should have (as suggested) constantly checked my reservation to determine if any seat changes were made and then complained as soon as I would have noticed.

In the meantime, I reached out to JetBlue via Twitter and they at least refunded the $30 I paid to purchase advance seating. (oh, and a flight attendant offered us free headsets)

In light of Dan's post about complaining to DOT regarding airlines charging for family seating, I filed a complaint to DOT.  I mentioned this to JetBlue and this was their reply:




Offline yuneeq

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2022, 11:58:40 AM »
Thanks all for your replies.  I am surprised to hear that this type of incident is commonplace.  In hindsight, I should have (as suggested) constantly checked my reservation to determine if any seat changes were made and then complained as soon as I would have noticed.

In the meantime, I reached out to JetBlue via Twitter and they at least refunded the $30 I paid to purchase advance seating. (oh, and a flight attendant offered us free headsets)

In light of Dan's post about complaining to DOT regarding airlines charging for family seating, I filed a complaint to DOT.  I mentioned this to JetBlue and this was their reply:




File a complaint with the FTC for deceptive marketing practices/lack of disclosure. This is not just a DOT issue it’s a false/misleading advertising issue which falls under the FTC’s purview.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2022, 12:09:53 PM »
Yep, paying and reserving specific seats doesn't actually guarantee those seats. A common misonception by passangers.

Stories like this probably happen thousands of times daily. Happend to me, my last 3 times flying each time.


Sorry, but there should be a clear difference between reserving a seat and paying for a seat.

The fact that it is commonplace should not excuse the behavior, but makes it much worse.


Offline AJK

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2022, 12:19:08 PM »
@yuneeq

Jetblue's CoC makes it expressly clear (as do, I suspect, the CoCs of all of the other airlines)

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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2022, 12:28:15 PM »
@yuneeq

Jetblue's CoC makes it expressly clear (as do, I suspect, the CoCs of all of the other airlines)



I think you have a different view of what "expressly clear" is to the average human. If you're *charging* for a service that is not guaranteed, well


Having it in the CoC (itself an accronym likely 99% of passengers don't know) is insufficient.

ETA: not just insufficient, it should not be acceptable. If you're paying it should be guaranteed.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 12:34:21 PM by Yehuda57 »

Offline AJK

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2022, 01:19:08 PM »
Listen, I'd prefer guaranteed seats, too. But the fact that you think payment for seat = guarantee for said seat is simply an assumption and/or how you'd like to be. All contracts are governed by their terms, and in this case the terms of that contract -- the CoC -- make it "expressly clear" that there is no such guarantee.

Most people also don't read the software EULA agreement before clicking "Agree" and going straight to installing. Guess what -- they're still bound by its terms!

Somewhat relatedly, ignorance of the law is no defense. Likewise, "oops, I didn't read what I was agreeing to" is not a defense either.



« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 01:24:19 PM by AJK »
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2022, 01:20:05 PM »

Having it in the CoC (itself an accronym likely 99% of passengers don't know) is insufficient.

ETA: not just insufficient, it should not be acceptable. If you're paying it should be guaranteed.

How about the entire CoC which famously doesn't obligate the carrier to ANYTHING.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2022, 01:31:11 PM »
Listen, I'd prefer guaranteed seats, too. But the fact that you think payment for seat = guarantee for said seat is simply an assumption and/or how you'd like to be. All contracts are governed by their terms, and in this case the terms of that contract -- the CoC -- make it "expressly clear" that there is no such guarantee.

Most people also don't read the EULA agreement before clicking "Agree" and going straight to installing. Guess what -- they're still bound by its terms.

Somewhat relatedly, ignorance of the law is no defense. Likewise, "oops, I didn't read what I was agreeing to" is not a defense either.

Look, IANAL, but there are consumer protections in place even in instances where customers clicked "I Agree" or paid for something while technically agreeing to a contract but hadn't read it. "It's in the contract" is not a cure-all. I'd argue the same should apply here. If the airline can't guarantee you a seat you're paying for, it should be MUCH clearer when they take your money, and the refund should be automatic BEFORE the flight, and the customer should be notified.

I agree with you that harrowing isn't the right word to use for this, but I think you are being way too dismissive of OP because "that's just the way things are". I'd argue, again, that is even more of a reason to sympathize with OP, not less. You are someone who is more likely to read the fine print and is a frequent traveler. Just because you know that reservations need to be babysat shouldn't excuse airlines for pulling this shtick.


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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2022, 01:39:04 PM »
Look, IANAL, but there are consumer protections in place even in instances where customers clicked "I Agree" or paid for something while technically agreeing to a contract but hadn't read it. "It's in the contract" is not a cure-all. I'd argue the same should apply here. If the airline can't guarantee you a seat you're paying for, it should be MUCH clearer when they take your money, and the refund should be automatic BEFORE the flight, and the customer should be notified.

It is a contract of adhesion. As such the consumer should be afforded certain protections.

The fact that they can charge for the seat, but not notify and refund IMMEDIATELY when it is taken away (IINM they do notify of flight cancelations and schedule changes) should not be tolerated.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2022, 02:02:49 AM »
@yuneeq

Jetblue's CoC makes it expressly clear (as do, I suspect, the CoCs of all of the other airlines)



CoC is irrelevant here. CoC helps that they didn’t violate their own terms. But they are still falsely advertising and contradicting their terms. Many businesses sell specific seats and all of them are practically guaranteed.

Similarly you can’t get around bait and switch laws by saying you have terms saying it’s allowed.
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Offline aygart

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2022, 10:36:00 AM »
@yuneeq

Jetblue's CoC makes it expressly clear (as do, I suspect, the CoCs of all of the other airlines)



THis does not discuss PAID seat assignments which should have their own terms as a separate transaction. EIther way, if a customer pays for something and they do not receive it then it should be refunded without needing to go through hoops.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: My JetBlue Harrowing Experience
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2022, 10:38:07 AM »
If a customer pays for something and they do not receive it then it should be refunded without needing to go through hoops.
I think everyone agrees with this, besides the airlines of course ;)

@yuneeq Get a lawyer to class action paid seat assignment changes.
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