Traveling or driving close to shabbos

[drosenberg88429]

😶
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[jye]

😶
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Rav Moshe Feinstein used to every week until he was incorrectly called out for it.

[ckmk47]

Rav Moshe Feinstein used to every week until he was incorrectly called out for it.

I'd like a longer version of that.
What would R Moshe do?

[CountValentine]

Voted 

[jye]

I'd like a longer version of that.
What would R Moshe do?

[yitzgar]

I think op was talking about traveling, not just driving to shul

[Pony]

See also Igros Moshe Orech Chaim chelek bais simin vuv

חלק או''ח ב סימן ו

בהערתו עלי בסימן צ"ו. ומש"כ כתר"ה שמה שנוהגות הנשים להדליק י"ח מינוטן ]דקות[ קודם השקיעה הוא משום שיטת היראים שבין השמשות הוא ג' רבעי מיל קודם התחלת השקיעה שהביאו הב"ח והמג"א בסימן רס"א סק"ט ומטעם זה אדם חשוב יש לו להחמיר, הנה הגר"א שם כתב שבזה לא נראו לו דבריו ולכן לא מסתבר שהמנהג הוא מצד שיטה זו אלא הוא לתוספת. וגם בהרבה מקומות מדליקות רק כעשרה מינוט קודם השקיעה וכמדומני שאף בעלי נפש אין מחמירין לפרוש ממלאכה אותם שאין מדליקין הנר, משעת הדלקת הנרות. אבל ודאי המחמיר כהיראים כדאיתא בב"ח תבוא עליו ברכה. ובכל אופן ליכא איסור מראית עין בעושה איש אז מלאכה כדכתבתי שם.

[jye]

I think op was talking about traveling, not just driving to shul

The thread was a spin-off of the one discussing the individual who was driving a pretty short point to point in Lakewood, not traveling long distance.

[AsherO]

I don’t think the word ever in the poll is fair. Just because someone did this once in a pinch doesn’t mean they see it as even remotely normative.

ETA: I think if you changed the votes to:
Yes
Yes, but only in extreme extenuating circumstances
No, but would in extreme extenuating circumstances
No

You’d have some yes and no votes changed to one of the middle options which is IMHO normative.

[yitzgar]

The thread was a spin-off of the one discussing the individual who was driving a pretty short point to point in Lakewood, not traveling long distance.

Oh ok didn't see that one

[Dan]

The thread was a spin-off of the one discussing the individual who was driving a pretty short point to point in Lakewood, not traveling long distance.

How would anyone reading this thread or voting know that?
Those are 2 very different questions.

[drosenberg88429]

How would anyone reading this thread or voting know that?
Those are 2 very different questions.

This poll was a pretty straightforward question. Ever means ever, and driven means driven. If it would be chillul shabbos were it to go past shkiyah (obviously not talking about hatzalah or driving to hospital for reason that would be halachically permissable to do on shabbos), it counts. There were two separate questions in the poll, one insinuating that one commenced travel very close to or after candle lighting, and the other insinuating that one left well before shabbos but got stuck in traffic or something and ended up arriving within 18 minutes of sundown.

I'm honestly surprised that 40% of people were never in a moving vehicle within 18 minutes of shkiyah on Friday, if those numbers are accurate. If I were to take a quick anecdotal poll of my peers and acquaintances, I'd be very surprised if I would get anywhere close to 40%. Some of the straightest shooters I know that would never play cavalier games with skirting shkiyah have been in a car past that timeframe.

[Moshe Green]

ETA: I think if you changed the votes to:
Yes, but only in extreme extenuating circumstances
No, but would in extreme extenuating circumstances

whats the difference between the 2 answers?

[drosenberg88429]

I don’t think the word ever in the poll is fair. Just because someone did this once in a pinch doesn’t mean they see it as even remotely normative.

ETA: I think if you changed the votes to:
Yes
Yes, but only in extreme extenuating circumstances
No, but would in extreme extenuating circumstances
No

You’d have some yes and no votes changed to one of the middle options which is IMHO normative.

Ever means anything but no is yes, no? Isn't it binary?

[drosenberg88429]

whats the difference between the 2 answers?

The second indicates that one conceptually would, but has never experienced a sufficiently extenuating circumstance to have caused it to occur.

[drosenberg88429]

This teshuva is a mussar sefer in gadlus and anavah.

[sds1493]

I'm honestly surprised that 40% of people were never in a moving vehicle within 18 minutes of shkiyah on Friday, if those numbers are accurate. If I were to take a quick anecdotal poll of my peers and acquaintances, I'd be very surprised if I would get anywhere close to 40%. Some of the straightest shooters I know that would never play cavalier games with skirting shkiyah have been in a car past that timeframe.

Gender likely plays a role. Those who light candles accept shabbos then (aside from extenuating circumstances). Your peers, presumably are male.

[drosenberg88429]

Gender likely plays a role. Those who light candles accept shabbos then (aside from extenuating circumstances). Your peers, presumably are male.

We've done plenty of polls on that too... The gender which usually lights candles 18 minutes before shkiyah doesn't constitute anywhere remotely close to 40% of the active users here, to the best of my knowledge.

I think females can also be subject to extenuating circumstances, particularly when pertaining to longer distance travel taking longer than expected and arriving late, although hopefully that isn't extremely common. Admittedly, I don't recall any particular trip when that has occurred to me, although I've definitely arrived within 30 minutes of candlelighting, unfortunately.

[yeshivabucher]

This poll was a pretty straightforward question. Ever means ever, and driven means driven. If it would be chillul shabbos were it to go past shkiyah (obviously not talking about hatzalah or driving to hospital for reason that would be halachically permissable to do on shabbos), it counts. There were two separate questions in the poll, one insinuating that one commenced travel very close to or after candle lighting, and the other insinuating that one left well before shabbos but got stuck in traffic or something and ended up arriving within 18 minutes of sundown.

I'm honestly surprised that 40% of people were never in a moving vehicle within 18 minutes of shkiyah on Friday, if those numbers are accurate. If I were to take a quick anecdotal poll of my peers and acquaintances, I'd be very surprised if I would get anywhere close to 40%. Some of the straightest shooters I know that would never play cavalier games with skirting shkiyah have been in a car past that timeframe.

you never heard someone drive their car to shul after licht benching to catch a mincha that's 10 minutes before shkkiah

[drosenberg88429]

you never heard someone drive their car to shul after licht benching to catch a mincha that's 10 minutes before shkkiah

I have. There was an option included in the poll for such a person, to the best of my recollection, labeled "Yes".