future of education in the state of NJ

[avromie7]

I'm passionate about getting a secular education for my sons. I don't like the trend of the past 10 years where they cut it out of mesivtas.

My hope is that since this isn't a communal "shitah" (like chassidishe communities), rather just inertia - that it would be easier to get mesivtas to offer it again.

There are more mesivtas offering English now than 10 years ago. When I entered high school there were 2.

[Euclid]

There are more mesivtas offering English now than 10 years ago. When I entered high school there were 2.

But since the population has now moved to Lakewood, the percentage of boys going to Lakewood mesivtas has risen dramatically.

[flyingace]

I'm passionate about getting a secular education for my sons. I don't like the trend of the past 10 years where they cut it out of mesivtas.

My hope is that since this isn't a communal "shitah" (like chassidishe communities), rather just inertia - that it would be easier to get mesivtas to offer it again.

The problem may be more of a practical than philosophical one for many Mesivtas. It is very hard to find qualified male teachers for secular subjects. The generation of male Jewish teachers of the past is long since gone. Hardly any men are going into education these days, let alone ones that would pass muster to teach in a Yeshiva.

[Definitions]

I'm passionate about getting a secular education for my sons. I don't like the trend of the past 10 years where they cut it out of mesivtas.

My hope is that since this isn't a communal "shitah" (like chassidishe communities), rather just inertia - that it would be easier to get mesivtas to offer it again.

What would you want them to learn?
Most important is to read English that is the key to everything else.
I see absolutely no reason to teach more than reading and writing English, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, (fractions too for all 4), basic algebra. A few basic useful mathematical formulas.
The rest is likely a waste of time.

If there's any leftover time it would be much more useful for them to teach how to fix things in day to day life.

[Euclid]

The problem may be more of a practical than philosophical one for many Mesivtas. It is very hard to find qualified male teachers for secular subjects. The generation of male Jewish teachers of the past is long since gone. Hardly any men are going into education these days, let alone ones that would pass muster to teach in a Yeshiva.

Great point. Though Id rather think of creative solutions, than just give up on it completely. GEDs seem like a possible solution, though a challenge with their schedules.

[aygart]

What would you want them to learn?
Most important is to read English that is the key to everything else.
I see absolutely no reason to teach more than reading and writing English, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, (fractions too for all 4), basic algebra. A few basic useful mathematical formulas.
The rest is likely a waste of time.

If there's any leftover time it would be much more useful for them to teach how to fix things in day to day life.

Basic geometry and science.

[Euclid]

What would you want them to learn?
Most important is to read English that is the key to everything else.
I see absolutely no reason to teach more than reading and writing English, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, (fractions too for all 4), basic algebra. A few basic useful mathematical formulas.
The rest is likely a waste of time.

If there's any leftover time it would be much more useful for them to teach how to fix things in day to day life.

I'd be fine with this. Emphasis on reading/writing and math.

[aygart]

I'd be fine with this. Emphasis on reading/writing and math.

You just described the GED programs. They do a better job than the mesivta English.

[Euclid]

You just described the GED programs. They do a better job than the mesivta English.

Ok great

Problem solved

Thinking more about this - this might be the better solution anyways, because only kids whose parents value secular education would attend. And there wouldn't be behavioral related issues (like there has been in mesivtas.)

[imayid2]

. And there wouldn't be behavioral related issues (like there has been in mesivtas.)

Do the children share their parents views on this?

[yesitsme]

Do the children share their parents views on this?

Learn the last blat in suckah

[aygart]

Ok great

Problem solved

Thinking more about this - this might be the better solution anyways, because only kids whose parents value secular education would attend. And there wouldn't be behavioral related issues (like there has been in mesivtas.)

Lol.

[imayid2]

Learn the last blat in suckah

Less applicable nowadays than it used to be.

[Euclid]

Lol.

I'm off base on that assumption?

[yesitsme]

Less applicable nowadays than it used to be.

False

[aygart]

I'm off base on that assumption?

Have you seen English in mesivtas?

[imayid2]

False

True.

[Euclid]

Have you seen English in mesivtas?

Not recently but if it's anything like it was in my days, there was a lack of seriousness. Mainly due to kids who didn't give a hoot.

I'm agreeing with you that an extracurricular GED program would be better, especially in that regard - because only kids whose parents valued it would attend.

[yelped]

I'm passionate about getting a secular education for my sons. I don't like the trend of the past 10 years where they cut it out of mesivtas.

My hope is that since this isn't a communal "shitah" (like chassidishe communities), rather just inertia - that it would be easier to get mesivtas to offer it again.

I went to a Chassidesh mesivta and the yeshiva provided a private tutor for the boys who wanted to get a high school diploma and take the Regents test. We did far more with 45 minutes, 3 times a week than if the entire class would have joined. We all scored in the high 90 on pretty much every subject.

[Euclid]

I went to a Chassidesh mesivta and the yeshiva provided a private tutor for the boys who wanted to get a high school diploma and take the Regents test. We did far more with 45 minutes, 3 times a week than if the entire class would have joined. We all scored in the high 90 on pretty much every subject.

That's really nice