Frum Jews assaulted on UA 1786 yesterday at LAX

[Yehuda57]

I'm not going to watch the video. There are a ton of these videos that go online every day. There are massive sub reddits dedicated to this genre. This case is different because we have only a few degrees of separation and there is an antisemitic angle, but almost all these videos share the same theme. Someone who is undergoing massive personal turmoil or has underlying mental health issues gets triggered something seemingly insignificant and loses it. The video gets seen by millions of people who gawk at this person going through the worst moments of their life.

Obviously there's no excuse for antisemitism, and if there wasn't *something* there to begin with, it would not have surfaced in an episode. There's also no excuse for verbally or physically attacking other people, and no matter the personal or mental struggles, the airline did the right thing by returning to the gate and deplaning her. And of course, there's no downplaying the scary, horrific experience this family had. They were victims of an attack, plain and simple.

But what purpose does sharing the video serve? It's tough to imagine the FAs could have done anything differently that wouldn't have escalated the situation and brought in the physical violence even sooner, while the plane was taxiing. This is not like the Lufthansa video where publication was key to bringing the issue to light. People have mental breakdowns in public. It's horrific, but sadly not unheard of. Publicizing the video adds a voyeuristic angle to it that is beneath what we've come to expect from DD.

/my2c

[S209]

/my2c

Nope. This was no “mental health struggle”. This was assault, plain and simple. There is never an excuse for violence and assault, and the system that teaches people to utilize violence and swearing as a coping mechanism is at fault.

[biobook]

I agree with everything Yehuda57 says, except for the first sentence.

I watched, or rather listened, to it (as the self-appointed "special master"?)  It's an extended mostly one-sided conversation in which so-called cuss words are used as adjectives.  And adverbs.  Also nouns and verbs. 

(This is different from the experience I once thought was Tourettes, when a man suddenly turned to my kippah-wearing seatmate, let out a string of antisemitic curse words, then turned and looked forward again as if nothing had happened.  And repeated this every 30 minutes or so.)

I would have asked to sit elsewhere, and am surprised if the FA didn't offer that option, but not surprised that she stayed away, which might be the best policy to avoid escalation. 

[S209]

Not to mention the streams of horrific threats and insinuations of physical harm or worse.

[Euclid]

There are a ton of these videos that go online every day. There are massive sub reddits dedicated to this genre. This case is different because we have only a few degrees of separation and there is an antisemitic angle, but almost all these videos share the same theme. Someone who is undergoing massive personal turmoil or has underlying mental health issues gets triggered something seemingly insignificant and loses it. The video gets seen by millions of people who gawk at this person going through the worst moments of their life.

A byproduct of cattle class seating. Cram people together into tight quarters and this is what you get.

[EliJelly]

Insanity. The crazy lady's poor little daughter should be taken into foster care immediately, that's for sure.

[AsherO]

A byproduct of cattle class seating. Cram people together into tight quarters and this is what you get.

Add that to all the stresses around travel, everything from cost and getting to the airport, lines and other COVID chaos, airports not having water fountains so they can charge you $4 for water, and TSA security theater with TSA agents on a power trip barking orders like dogs, if anyone has any crazy in them, air travel in 2022 works hard to squeeze it out in the open.

[Dan]

I would have asked to sit elsewhere, and am surprised if the FA didn't offer that option, but not surprised that she stayed away, which might be the best policy to avoid escalation. 

This happened just 4 rows from the back of the plane.
It's shocking to me that the FAs in the rear galley didn't intervene by reseating the offending pax.

[CountValentine]

Looking for advise on what his next steps should be, UA executive resolutions already reached out, but they didn't speak yet.

It is over with so move on.

[Dan]

I'm not going to watch the video. There are a ton of these videos that go online every day. There are massive sub reddits dedicated to this genre. This case is different because we have only a few degrees of separation and there is an antisemitic angle, but almost all these videos share the same theme. Someone who is undergoing massive personal turmoil or has underlying mental health issues gets triggered something seemingly insignificant and loses it. The video gets seen by millions of people who gawk at this person going through the worst moments of their life.

Obviously there's no excuse for antisemitism, and if there wasn't *something* there to begin with, it would not have surfaced in an episode. There's also no excuse for verbally or physically attacking other people, and no matter the personal or mental struggles, the airline did the right thing by returning to the gate and deplaning her. And of course, there's no downplaying the scary, horrific experience this family had. They were victims of an attack, plain and simple.

But what purpose does sharing the video serve? It's tough to imagine the FAs could have done anything differently that wouldn't have escalated the situation and brought in the physical violence even sooner, while the plane was taxiing. This is not like the Lufthansa video where publication was key to bringing the issue to light. People have mental breakdowns in public. It's horrific, but sadly not unheard of. Publicizing the video adds a voyeuristic angle to it that is beneath what we've come to expect from DD.

/my2c

Meh, I don't think this is a good take, but I'll chalk it up to not watching the last 15 minutes of the video, which is fair.

There's no reason that this set off a tirade interlaced with anti semitic threats about where he lived and there's no evidence that both of the women had sudden mental breakdowns because the FA told them to kennel their dog.

And the FAs easily could have done a reseating given 20 open seats in coach, so plenty could have been done to deescalate and avoid 2 passengers being physically assaulted.

Additionally, DD didn't post this. I told JJ that I wasn't inclined to post the video to the DD YT channel or to DDMS, at least until I dug deeper and examined what the benefit would be and that given the R rated nature of the language there would be a much higher bar to clear.

[CountValentine]

There's no reason that this set off a tirade interlaced with anti semitic threats about where he lived and there's no evidence that both of the women had sudden mental breakdowns because the FA told them to kennel their dog.

This was a nutcase. Them being Jews or "Frum Jews" as the title says adds nothing to the story. They could have been Irish and the exact same thing would have happened.

[jj1000]

Additionally, DD didn't post this. I told JJ that I wasn't inclined to post the video to the DD YT channel or to DDMS, at least until I dug deeper and examined what the benefit would be and that given the R rated nature of the language there would be a much higher bar to clear.

Yep, was posted to DDF for the investigative aspect. A friend called me for help, said I'd send to Dan and ask our forums for their take.

One can assume the facts and say what they think, or as some asked, they can watch the video, and say what they think.

Personally I didn't want to watch the whole thing and if someone did want to watch, and gather the facts to help out my friend, that's great and appreciated.

And as many said it's so hard to imagine they could have done anything to help, yet after more facts are dug into they could have moved my friend's family away from her at the first sign of violent threats.

Additionally if this is so common, I would think there is a written protocal for FA's in these situations. Maybe they followed that protocal maybe they didn't and maybe a protocal doesn't exist when it certainly should. Usually airlines don't do anything until the court of public opinon forces them to.

[CountValentine]

Yep, was posted to DDF for the investigative aspect. A friend called me for help, said I'd send to Dan and ask our forums for their take.

One can assume the facts and say what they think, or as some asked, they can watch the video, and say what they think.

Personally I didn't want to watch the whole thing and if someone did want to watch, and gather the facts to help out my friend, that's great and appreciated.

And as many said it's so hard to imagine they could have done anything to help, yet after more facts are dug into they could have moved my friend's family away from her at the first sign of violent threats.

Additionally if this is so common, I would think there is a written protocal for FA's in these situations. Maybe they followed that protocal maybe they didn't and maybe a protocal doesn't exist when it certainly should. Usually airlines don't do anything until the court of public opinon forces them to.

I listen to the whole thing. I though the FA's did a good job with the nutcase daughter.
What is your friend trying to accomplish? Are they looking for protocols to be in place to better protect passengers? Are they looking for a monetary result or something else?

[jj1000]

I listen to the whole thing. I though the FA's did a good job with the nutcase daughter.

Good to hear, though hard to undestand why they didn't move them.

What is your friend trying to accomplish? Are they looking for protocols to be in place to better protect passengers? Are they looking for a monetary result or something else?

He called me to geniunly ask what he should do.

I don't think he is looking to accomplish anything specifically right now, just find out what other people think of his situation he's in now, which I think is a perfectly level headed and reasonable thing to do after going through a terrible trauma.

The police also offered him if he wants to press charges for the assult. He declined at the time, but that avenue is open as well. Think there is any chance these people actually hunt them down and look for their home, should they be worried about that?

[CountValentine]

Good to hear, though hard to undestand why they didn't move them.

If they kicked them off the plane there is more to the story.

The police also offered him if he wants to press charges for the assult. He declined at the time, but that avenue is open as well. Think there is any chance these people actually hunt them down and look for their home, should they be worried about that?

This is the option I would suggest and probably would have done if my wife or child was actually assaulted (physically).
The nutcase rant is typically that I have heard way too many times at work. As far as the nutcase acting on the rant, I would say the chance is very close to zero but not zero. 

[jj1000]

If they kicked them off the plane there is more to the story. This is the option I would suggest and probably would have done if my wife or child was actually assaulted (physically).

My friend and his family flew home on the flight that night.

[jj1000]

This is the option I would suggest and probably would have done if my wife or child was actually assaulted (physically).

Interesting, I think orthodox Jews have an aversion to doing this option. Anyone else can chime in on why that is.

[CountValentine]

My friend and his family flew home on the flight that night.

Talking about the nutcases. If when asked to put the dog in the carrier something must have happened. If she complied the story would have been over.

[Yehuda57]

Nope. This was no “mental health struggle”. This was assault, plain and simple. There is never an excuse for violence and assault, and the system that teaches people to utilize violence and swearing as a coping mechanism is at fault.

You missed where I said "this was an attack, plain and simple" and said multiple times that a mental breakdown doesn't excuse anyone's behavior?

Meh, I don't think this is a good take,

For not being a good take, you seem to kind of agree with it by not posting it to DD YouTube or anything.

I don't think it's bad to post a link on DDF without posting to YouTube or DDMS. I think that's more than fair. I also don't begrudge the victims getting every bit of compensation they can. Even if united isn't responsible for a passenger's breakdown, and even if they did everything right, they still had passengers who had a beyond awful experience on their flight, to put it mildly, and they would/should want to mitigate that as much as they can.

Regarding moving seats, Fwiu this was during taxiing. Safety rules are that no one can be walking around during taxiing. Even though 99.9999% of the time it's fine, flight crews are stickers for the rules, as they have to be*. I would not be surprised if the captain told the FAs not to move anyone during taxiing. Had the physical violence started during taxiing, that would have changed the equation.

*Of late I've gotten a bit into aviation YouTube, specifically analyzing crashes and dangerous incidents. It's remarkable how seemingly insignificant rules can have disastrous or miraculous results.

[Dan]

You missed where I said "this was an attack, plain and simple" and said multiple times that a mental breakdown doesn't excuse anyone's behavior?

For not being a good take, you seem to kind of agree with it by not posting it to DD YouTube or anything.

I don't think it's bad to post a link on DDF without posting to YouTube or DDMS. I think that's more than fair. I also don't begrudge the victims getting every bit of compensation they can. Even if united isn't responsible for a passenger's breakdown, and even if they did everything right, they still had passengers who had a beyond awful experience on their flight, to put it mildly, and they would/should want to mitigate that as much as they can.

Regarding moving seats, Fwiu this was during taxiing. Safety rules are that no one can be walking around during taxiing. Even though 99.9999% of the time it's fine, flight crews are stickers for the rules, as they have to be*. I would not be surprised if the captain told the FAs not to move anyone during taxiing. Had the physical violence started during taxiing, that would have changed the equation.

*Of late I've gotten a bit into aviation YouTube, specifically analyzing crashes and dangerous incidents. It's remarkable how seemingly insignificant rules can have disastrous or miraculous results.

Then I misread what you wrote as responding to what JJ already shared here.

But still, when there's a ground stop, the pilots announce that you can stand up and move around. No reason I can think of that the pilot couldn't have stopped and allowed the FAs to deescalate and move people around, once this was bad enough that it was determined they had to be removed.

It seems obvious that things were going to get worse when the pilot announced they were going back to the gate due to a disturbance on the plane.