Author Topic: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken  (Read 121630 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #380 on: September 05, 2022, 11:51:12 PM »
The ones that don't usually pay their dedicated mashgiach so little that it's a question as to whether they're actually motivated to do their job correctly. Hashgacha is a messy business.
Yes that is a big part of the food service conundrum
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #381 on: September 05, 2022, 11:51:56 PM »
Perhaps they are referring to those who reheated the food at home.  Those who ordered takeout probably wouldn't do that, but it was mentioned upthread that it was a popular place to order from for parties/events.

That's not doubting if the food is kosher, rather whether the food was hot when it was placed on the utensils. The OK didn't make any distinction though, which points to verified unkosher food (at least some of the food).
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #382 on: September 05, 2022, 11:53:50 PM »
Which is why they said to speak to your Rov about applying the psak.

A rav doesn't help if the facts aren't clear. If the facts aren't clear, then there's nothing to ask.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #383 on: September 05, 2022, 11:58:00 PM »
A rav doesn't help if the facts aren't clear. If the facts aren't clear, then there's nothing to ask.
The facts aren't clear yet to the OK either, but they had to say something based on what they suspect so far into the investigation.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online zh cohen

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #384 on: September 06, 2022, 12:00:28 AM »
That's not doubting if the food is kosher, rather whether the food was hot when it was placed on the utensils. The OK didn't make any distinction though, which points to verified unkosher food (at least some of the food).

Right.

Offline Dan

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #385 on: September 06, 2022, 12:00:42 AM »
and covered for others
Only 1 post from you in this thread? Surely you have more to say :)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #386 on: September 06, 2022, 12:07:13 AM »
Only 1 post from you in this thread? Surely you have more to say choose to remain silent about  :)

FTFY
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #387 on: September 06, 2022, 12:17:19 AM »
That's fine for personal advice, but the statement is written for everyone, including people that were able to eat the food while still hot, or warmed it up in a microwave/oven.
@wayfe was given personal advice, so Iím not understanding the issue youíre having with what he (the Rabbi) said (besides for the fact that definitive or not is irrelevant).

Online moko

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #388 on: September 06, 2022, 12:52:34 AM »
Only 1 post from you in this thread? Surely you have more to say :)
first, I have a 1:30 am meeting.....

gotta let the investigation play out . I have a lot to say but not all for public consumption.
I was simply commenting that to cast aspersions on the OKs overall integrity over this, is hogwash.
This could have happened to any hashgacha I know , chasidish, litvish, national, local Va'ad.... Of course you have to do due diligence in prevention but as stated earlier , nothing is fool proof. Obviously you have to learn from mistakes and not repeat them.
One possible prevention method is to use signed & numbered single use zip tie seals in conjunction with locks.
Good quality, hi res cameras are a must nowadays.

Ultimately,, if someone wants to cheat , no amount of mashgichim will stop him. Only siyata dishmaya will help catch him. (Locks are for honest people). We recently gave hashgacha to a certain establishment but realized we couldn't trust the management even for silly things and ultimately dropped the hashgacha shortly after the grand opening. We took a lot of heya for that decision but we're ultimately vindicated when the new certifier caught them sneaking in specifically rejected product in garbage bags.


There have been several insane scandals by other agencies in the recent years months (some are ongoing) that are simply brushed under the rug. R Yudel is aware or willfully ignorant and therefore his word carries no weight.

Last point for now....a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. You can have all the safeguards in place but if the Mashgiach isn't following protocol, it's worthless.
That why it's if utmost importance to have someone checking in on the onsite mashgichim at least twice week but preferably everyday to provide support, supplies, and to ensure the mashgichim are on their game. You can't park a Mashgiach somewhere, forget about them and assume all will be well.
I've see a situation multiple times where a Mashgiach comes in for a morning shift and  finds an issue in the sealed walk-in.
Or vice versa where a Mashgiach simply opened a sealed walk-in without verifying the contents or a Mashgiach in a supermarket who, when following the strict protocols to check in all incoming deliveries, checked in and signed  non kosher product.
 

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #389 on: September 06, 2022, 01:07:09 AM »
@wayfe was given personal advice, so Iím not understanding the issue youíre having with what he (the Rabbi) said (besides for the fact that definitive or not is irrelevant).

My only point was regarding the fact that it didn't seem definitive

This could have happened to any hashgacha I know , chasidish, litvish, national, local Va'ad.... Of course you have to do due diligence in prevention but as stated earlier , nothing is fool proof. Obviously you have to learn from mistakes and not repeat them.
...
Ultimately, if someone wants to cheat , no amount of mashgichim will stop him. Only siyata dishmaya will help catch him.

True, but when you have people yelling publicly about a place for 9+ years, that doesn't look too good for any hechsher
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Offline ilherman

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #390 on: September 06, 2022, 01:08:13 AM »
If this family indeed owns more kosher places why isn't OK publishing this info right away?

Regarding the argument earlier in this thread about cheap = Treif. I think אלו ואלו דברי אלקים חיים.

@Dan, I don't think the members who were posting about their cheap pricing were saying that JUST because of that they most be Treif. I think all they meant to say was that specific to this situation where it's all unknown, the fact that they were ridiculously cheaper just adds to the story.

No one is disagreeing to what you were saying that you can't just assume because a place is cheap means Treif.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline ilherman

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #391 on: September 06, 2022, 01:10:56 AM »
Not with the OK, but I know of at least 4 places in South FL that had this issue within the last 5 years. It's not a small issue.
Can you elaborate? I think quite a few of the Miami restaurants are owned by non jews. I believe Harbor grill/bistro is owned by non jews and I heard some other names as well I think. Fuego FWIW is owned by a Jew.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline WonderingYid

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Offline WonderingYid

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #393 on: September 06, 2022, 01:53:11 AM »
Do we have information on who exactly owns NKS and what's the relation to the owner of KCE? Or who owns GKF? What's the other Brooklyn restaurant?
Glatt Coney
(718) 676-7781
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4nS8wwmJ5E3fEnfZA
Glatt Kosher Family
(718) 972-8085
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9FEfZJ2ujsY3wCUi6
I believe these 2 restaurants are owned by the same person. I don't think that they have anything to do with the manalapan guy.
 

Offline imayid2

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #394 on: September 06, 2022, 01:58:35 AM »
My only point was regarding the fact that it didn't seem definitive
You seem to have understood it as regarding kashering. Yes they definitively require kashering. I understood it regarding wether or not there was definitely trief served, to which the statement is vague and non definitive on.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #395 on: September 06, 2022, 02:19:53 AM »
Can you elaborate? I think quite a few of the Miami restaurants are owned by non jews. I believe Harbor grill/bistro is owned by non jews and I heard some other names as well I think. Fuego FWIW is owned by a Jew.

The issue I was referring to was Jewish owned places caught serving treif.
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Offline hocker

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #396 on: September 06, 2022, 02:21:29 AM »
At this point the best thing going for the OK's credibility is that they ignore ywn
Spot on. The obvious conclusion is that anyone that ate OK should be Kashering their pots and utensils...

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #397 on: September 06, 2022, 02:26:51 AM »
You seem to have understood it as regarding kashering. Yes they definitively require kashering. I understood it regarding wether or not there was definitely trief served, to which the statement is vague and non definitive on.

Sure, the statement is a bit vague. But for them to definitively recommend kashering a couple hours into an investigation means they definitively found treif being served. IMHO.

If there was any other possible conclusion the investigation would take a lot longer before they came out with this recommendation, with a statement like "We are currently investigating this issue and will issue our recommendations as soon as we have clarity".

Why would the OK ever recommend kashering mi'safek if a longer investigation might render it moot, and it is completely destroying their (the OK) reputation?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 02:31:24 AM by yuneeq »
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #398 on: September 06, 2022, 07:03:43 AM »
Spot on. The obvious conclusion is that anyone that ate OK should be Kashering their pots and utensils...

Better than anyone who reads YWN, and needs to Kasher their mind :P
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #399 on: September 06, 2022, 07:07:24 AM »
a Mashgiach in a supermarket who, when following the strict protocols to check in all incoming deliveries, checked in and signed  non kosher product.

This sounds like a human drone on autopilot who forgot what their actual job is, very sad.
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