Author Topic: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken  (Read 118630 times)

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 5121
  • Total likes: 2239
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #220 on: September 05, 2022, 08:42:29 PM »
Who cares
YWN

They want you to stop relying on them because the were ignored

Quote
Editorís Note: YWN reached out multiple times to OK Kosher throughout the day to obtain information regarding this scandal so that restaurant patrons could gain some clarity on the matter. Despite numerous attempts through various means, multiple top OK Kosher officials refused to discuss the matter and would not provide any statement at all (essentially ignoring YWN), leaving our readers in the dark regarding this deeply concerning matter. Stonewalling patrons of a restaurant possibly being served treif in their search for information and guidance is not only disturbing, it also calls into question whether the hashgacha should be relied upon at all.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69437
  • Total likes: 18075
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #221 on: September 05, 2022, 08:42:42 PM »
I won a free lunch at Peking from my 4th grade rebbi after getting tested on mishnayis baal peh. The restaurant was located across the street from Rabbi Dessler's Hebrew Academy of Cleveland.

A week after came word that they were serving treif and I felt angry and sick over for a very long time.

?זו תורה וזו שכרה

And it happened in HAC's backyard? Under a vaad that arranged boycotts for restaurants that dared use another hashgocha?

The owner never asked forgiveness from the community, but in time I forgave him. Financial troubles can make people do awful things.

The vaad never said outright that it was treif, but said to kasher dishes, etc. To this day, my mother only uses plasticware on take out food.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 08:48:53 PM by Dan »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline coffeebean

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2018
  • Posts: 3047
  • Total likes: 826
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #222 on: September 05, 2022, 08:42:48 PM »
Basically they believe there was unkosher served for at least 6 months, enough so to require kashering your utensils. What else is needed to know
Imagine someone coming over to your house and telling  you I'm not telling you what I did but you have to kasher all your utensils in the house. Yes, that's technically all I need to know, but I still want to know why I have to kasher them. What could the reason be that they're not telling us?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5409
  • Total likes: 15303
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #223 on: September 05, 2022, 08:44:43 PM »
YWN was ignored by the OK

LOL. Just because your toddler was correct once when you asked him what the parsha of the voch is doesn't mean you should start asking him to pasken your shailos

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 828
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #224 on: September 05, 2022, 08:46:31 PM »
Basically they believe there was unkosher served for at least 6 months, enough so to require kashering your utensils. What else is needed to know

They should STATE that in the STATEMENT.

Anything less than stating the following:

There was non-kosher meat served
or
We believe there was non-kosher meat served
or
We suspect that there was non-kosher meat served

is being intentionally vague.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 17342
  • Total likes: 7841
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #225 on: September 05, 2022, 08:49:35 PM »
IDK. When I want to taste DW's food, if it tastes really good I jokingly say it doesn't taste kosher. Maybe there actually is a correlation between food tasting really good and not being kosher.
You mean like prime rib?  ;)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
Dow Jones Industrial Average Tops 40000 for the First Time

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3309
  • Total likes: 3780
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #226 on: September 05, 2022, 08:49:53 PM »
To this day, my mother only uses plasticware on take out food.

Somewhat chilling feeling to eat in plastic utensils because "in case this meat is nveila".

Online yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8912
  • Total likes: 4102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #227 on: September 05, 2022, 08:51:29 PM »
They should STATE that in the STATEMENT.

There was non-kosher meat served

They are saving face but this much is clear. When the OK responds within hours and says that you have to kasher utensils this is the only option.
Visibly Jewish

Online yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 11631
  • Total likes: 4271
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #228 on: September 05, 2022, 08:52:07 PM »
I turn 54 tomorrow. You're actually welcomed to my bd party.
Address? Or I'll have to "POIDH".

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 5121
  • Total likes: 2239
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #229 on: September 05, 2022, 08:52:15 PM »
A mashgiach once told me that a hechsher of a retail food establishment boils down to trusting the owner,
if the owner is not trustworthy a hechsher doesn't do much

« Last Edit: September 05, 2022, 08:58:09 PM by yesitsme »
["-"]

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 828
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #230 on: September 05, 2022, 08:53:36 PM »
They are saving face but this much is clear. When the OK responds within hours and says that you have to kasher utensils this is the only option.

It's not within hours. Didn't Yudel Shain break the story (after all his previous warnings) on Thursday?
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 18045
  • Total likes: 8270
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinumģ
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #231 on: September 05, 2022, 08:54:50 PM »
A mashgiach once told me that hechsher of a retail food establishment boils down to trusting the owner,
if the owner is not trustworthy a hechsher doesn't do much

FTFY.

If I wouldn't eat in that person's house, I wouldn't eat at their restaurant.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3309
  • Total likes: 3780
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #232 on: September 05, 2022, 08:56:26 PM »


Is there anything written from Reb Moshe on which Reb Reuven bases this idea upon?

On טמטום הלב I recall a contradicting opinion from the poskim and Ohr H'Chaim/Sifrei Chasidus. What comes to mind first is קטן אוכל נבילות which is totally permitted according to the Torah yet the poskim write to refrain because it causes טמטום הלב.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69437
  • Total likes: 18075
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #233 on: September 05, 2022, 08:58:31 PM »
FTFY.

If I wouldn't eat in that person's house, I wouldn't eat at their restaurant.
All good and fine, but as seen in CLE and Monsey, frum and seemingly ehriche yidden are fully capable of this as well, with top notch hechsherim behind them.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8912
  • Total likes: 4102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #234 on: September 05, 2022, 08:59:02 PM »
It's not within hours. Didn't Yudel Shain break the story (after all his previous warnings) on Thursday?

The story went viral today, their public response leaves no doubt about whether treif was served. They aren't saying - "we are investigating and keilim might need to be toiveled". It doesn't get clearer.
Visibly Jewish

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 5121
  • Total likes: 2239
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #235 on: September 05, 2022, 08:59:17 PM »
FTFY.

If I wouldn't eat in that person's house, I wouldn't eat at their restaurant.
Which raises the question if you can at all have a non-Jewish owned and operated restaurant with a hechsher

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31219
  • Total likes: 8123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #236 on: September 05, 2022, 09:00:08 PM »
Somewhat chilling feeling to eat in plastic utensils because "in case this meat is nveila".

Itís more of the trauma of having to Kosher a bunch of dishes just in case they had become unKosher, and ensuring one would never have to face that again. Its not necessarily a concern about any specific takeout establishment, or takeout establishments in general.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Online yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8912
  • Total likes: 4102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #237 on: September 05, 2022, 09:01:23 PM »
Which raises the question if you can at all have a non-frum owned and operated restaurant with a hechsher

FTFY
A frum-owned restaurant doesn't necessarily need a mashgiach temidi, but if the owner is untrustworthy you can't eat there if he doesn't.
Visibly Jewish

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31219
  • Total likes: 8123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #238 on: September 05, 2022, 09:02:26 PM »
Is there anything written from Reb Moshe on which Reb Reuven bases this idea upon?

On טמטום הלב I recall a contradicting opinion from the poskim and Ohr H'Chaim/Sifrei Chasidus. What comes to mind first is קטן אוכל נבילות which is totally permitted according to the Torah yet the poskim write to refrain because it causes טמטום הלב.

Iím not sure if the case you cite is comparable, that one is lechatchila with food that is known to be treif. This is bdieved with food that was presumed to be Kosher.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline wayfe

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 828
  • Total likes: 140
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Manalapan Kosher Chinese Express Owner Buying Non-Kosher Chicken
« Reply #239 on: September 05, 2022, 09:04:04 PM »
The story went viral today, their public response leaves no doubt about whether treif was served. They aren't saying - "we are investigating and keilim might need to be toiveled". It doesn't get clearer.

It left doubt for me. Which is why I am here, dissecting their statement. But thank for clearing that up.

The situation is distressing enough, the least they can do is offer some transparency.
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned."
ó Richard Feynman