Author Topic: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park  (Read 4924 times)

Offline WonderingYid

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2024, 03:36:47 PM »
Putting everything aside, it's a nes nobody was killed during this demolition! See 20 seconds into the bottom video.

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1770190554208297155
Criminal charges can and should be filed against the operator of the excavator.
Reckless endangerment etc.

Offline WonderingYid

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2024, 03:39:35 PM »
Not really relevant to the purpose of this thread, but seeing the disregard to safety taken in the the demolition of this building, how would anyone trust the developer to build the new building safely?
The same Q can be asked on most BP construction. The person (First name likely starts with a M) responsible for this should be put in Chayrim.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2024, 10:05:19 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Deals dealer

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2024, 01:05:12 AM »
That's for shuls owned by a congregation board, new members are voted in and they decide to keep the shul open. My question was more about the shteiblach which were owned by the rov/rebbe, what happened after they relocated out of CH, I'm sure they sold their house and shul, was an effort made to buy them off to keep those open as a shul?
I want to carefully touch this topic without causing any trouble or misunderstandings. It's important to know that it's true that the Lubavitcher Rebbe wanted his Chasidim to pray in local shuls to help keep them active. However, the way this advice was followed wasn't always what you'd expect. This isn't questioning the Rebbe's intentions but pointing out that, sometimes, the actions of some Chasidim came off as too forceful and not very considerate to the Rabbonim and owners of the shuls.

An example of this happened with Rabbi Unger's synagogue at 768 Montgomery Street. The way it was taken over didn't seem completely fair, putting a lot of pressure on the original owner and leading to a sale that didn't really benefit him financially. Even though these actions might have been done with the intention to do what the Rebbe wanted, they ended up creating some negative feelings, making us think about the saying המטרה מקדשת את האמצעים (the end justifies the means) and whether it's okay to act this way for a good cause.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2024, 09:29:38 AM »
An example of this happened with Rabbi Unger's synagogue at 768 Montgomery Street. The way it was taken over didn't seem completely fair, putting a lot of pressure on the original owner and leading to a sale that didn't really benefit him financially. Even though these actions might have been done with the intention to do what the Rebbe wanted, they ended up creating some negative feelings, making us think about the saying המטרה מקדשת את האמצעים (the end justifies the means) and whether it's okay to act this way for a good cause.

I don't know the specifics of 768. Let's just say that whoever took it over was criticized (and sued) for other real estate transactions in Crown Heights, so I am not sure 768 can be used as an example.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2024, 09:42:12 AM »
I want to carefully touch this topic without causing any trouble or misunderstandings. It's important to know that it's true that the Lubavitcher Rebbe wanted his Chasidim to pray in local shuls to help keep them active. However, the way this advice was followed wasn't always what you'd expect. This isn't questioning the Rebbe's intentions but pointing out that, sometimes, the actions of some Chasidim came off as too forceful and not very considerate to the Rabbonim and owners of the shuls.

An example of this happened with Rabbi Unger's synagogue at 768 Montgomery Street. The way it was taken over didn't seem completely fair, putting a lot of pressure on the original owner and leading to a sale that didn't really benefit him financially. Even though these actions might have been done with the intention to do what the Rebbe wanted, they ended up creating some negative feelings, making us think about the saying המטרה מקדשת את האמצעים (the end justifies the means) and whether it's okay to act this way for a good cause.

Again, I'm not familiar with the specifics of any shul's "transition", but the vast majority left without any interest or desire in hanging on to anything. Remember, Lubavitchers were the only lunatics who remained, no one else felt the properties held any value at all.

Anyone who scammed their way into taking a shul off an owner wasn't using "bad" means to justify an altruistic end of fulfilling the Rebbe's wishes, they were being greedy. Don't steal to pad your own pockets and blame the Rebbe.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2024, 04:46:01 PM »
Again, I'm not familiar with the specifics of any shul's "transition", but the vast majority left without any interest or desire in hanging on to anything. Remember, Lubavitchers were the only lunatics who remained, no one else felt the properties held any value at all.

Anyone who scammed their way into taking a shul off an owner wasn't using "bad" means to justify an altruistic end of fulfilling the Rebbe's wishes, they were being greedy. Don't steal to pad your own pockets and blame the Rebbe.

I am also not familiar with any specifics, but understand that some controversy was with people who wanted to sell the property, and were upset that people were insisting that it remain a shul.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2024, 06:35:59 PM »
Unfortunately not significant enough. A fine will be a mere slap on the wrist which could be passed on to future buyers as part of the cost of the project.

Since this was done in violation of court orders (not sure where that holds once it goes to arbitration) and of BD orders. I think the appropriate punishment would be for him to have to rebuild the shul as per original design, to be used as a shul for at least 5 years after completion, at which point a new board meeting and vote would be required to approve or disapprove his original plan.

How do I get on thi$ new board?

*ducks*
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2024, 06:37:54 PM »
That's for shuls owned by a congregation board, new members are voted in and they decide to keep the shul open. My question was more about the shteiblach which were owned by the rov/rebbe, what happened after they relocated out of CH, I'm sure they sold their house and shul, was an effort made to buy them off to keep those open as a shul?

Some and some. Keep in mind there wasn’t the demand for shuls back then that there is now.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2024, 06:41:16 PM »
I forgot to mention Maple Street Shul, which had an annual Melave Malka which used to be announced at the Rebbe's farbrengen, in the years when no Yidden lived on that block or neighboring blocks. Unfortunately, that shul has also been the subject of fights between factions. I'm not sure of the status now. IINM at some point it was rented to a Yeshiva.

Itchke’s Shtibel uses it, and it’s going strong! I think at times there was/is another congregation that used/s the basement there. No idea who owns it or whether the congregation(s) pay rent.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2024, 09:26:18 PM »
How do I get on thi$ new board?

*ducks*

Talk to me in year 4 of the rebuilt shul operation.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Moish613

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #91 on: March 25, 2024, 08:09:50 PM »
https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1772348283152666818

These are the "facts"
They conveniently left out the fact about needing a performance bond.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Demolition of Chevra Anshei Lubawitz of Borough Park
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2024, 08:53:49 PM »
https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1772348283152666818

These are the "facts"
They conveniently left out the fact about needing a performance bond.
All I could say is that Bais Yitzchok is named after Rav Ushpal Z"L and he's rolling in his grave.
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