Author Topic: NY Times vs. Chassidim  (Read 127518 times)

Offline YitzyS

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1780 on: May 04, 2023, 03:53:09 PM »
There doesn't have to be a very significant amount of damage. In the bulk of libel suits, IINM, the point is to publicly air the lies to get attention. It's usually the attention that the other party doesn't like, and thus they settle.

If the intention is to actually go to trial and win, it's almost impossible to get something when it's a media company.

Offline AsherO

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1781 on: May 04, 2023, 06:08:07 PM »
You didn't answer the question. What are the specific damages (read: $$) you are claiming the NYT caused?

If you can prove you were defamed do you have to prove the value of reputational damage, or could you claim it was x amount and the court would decide what amount they think is justified?
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Offline dovy2

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1782 on: May 04, 2023, 07:29:52 PM »
If you can prove you were defamed do you have to prove the value of reputational damage, or could you claim it was x amount and the court would decide what amount they think is justified?
Is there the concept of paying  בושת in US law?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1783 on: May 08, 2023, 05:50:24 PM »
Press release from Agudah:



Offline EliJelly

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1784 on: May 15, 2023, 07:07:07 PM »

Offline Essen est zich

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Offline Alexsei

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1786 on: June 09, 2023, 01:36:57 PM »
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/real-story-new-yorks-yeshiva?trk=feed_main-feed-card_feed-article-content

TL;DR by ChatGPT:
The bias of this article seems to be in favor of defending New York's Hasidic yeshivas and challenging the negative portrayal of these schools by The New York Times. The article presents a counter-narrative to the criticisms raised by the New York Times' and highlights the positive aspects of yeshiva education, such as its emphasis on religious education, critical thinking skills, and moral development. It also questions the accuracy and fairness of the New York Times' reporting, suggesting that it may have omitted important perspectives and misrepresented the performance of yeshiva students. Overall, the article takes a supportive stance towards yeshivas and portrays them in a positive light.

V2:
The article challenges The New York Times' coverage of New York's Hasidic yeshivas, claiming that it was filled with inaccuracies and left out the perspective of the Hasidic community itself. It argues that the Times relied heavily on critics of the community and those who had left it, rather than giving a balanced view. The article highlights testimonials from yeshiva graduates, parents, and teachers, along with education scholars and elected officials, who refute the claims made by the Times. It argues that yeshiva education provides valuable skills, such as critical thinking and analytical abilities, and that the focus on standardized test scores is misleading. The article also disputes allegations of corporal punishment in yeshivas and challenges the notion that yeshiva students are left unprepared for life after high school. It presents evidence of the Hasidic community's economic success and its engagement in the workforce. The article concludes by criticizing The New York Times for its biased portrayal of the Hasidic yeshivas.
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Offline dm123

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1787 on: June 14, 2023, 12:06:29 PM »
Not NYT vs Chassidim but figured it belongs here (re: recent NYT "ethicist" discussing Jewish parents disinheriting intermarried child):

https://twitter.com/dovidmargolin/status/1668649312128057349




Offline Saulius

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1788 on: June 29, 2023, 08:42:08 AM »

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1789 on: June 29, 2023, 10:02:43 AM »
NYT Op-Ed today. They're still at it, albeit in a roundabout way.


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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1790 on: June 29, 2023, 10:25:36 AM »

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1791 on: June 29, 2023, 10:36:42 AM »
Non YWN link?

Quote
For the past nine months, the New York Times has been on a crusade to criticize and undermine the yeshiva community. Story after story contained falsehoods, inaccuracies and half-truths and lacked basic context. Even groups such as the JCRC and Anti-Defamation league called out the Times for their obsession with yeshivas and yeshiva parents. But the Times persisted, hiding behind an underserved presumption of objectivity and legal protections that make it nearly impossible to make a newspaper pay for its journalistic sins.

Those days will soon be over for the paper of record. An email that Times reporter Brian Rosenthal sent to the State Education Department makes it clear that he knew that the “facts” he reported about yeshivas were false.

On December 29, the Times published a front page story “How Hasidic Schools Reaped a Windfall of Special Education Funding” written by Rosenthal. The article made incendiary claims about the percentage of students in Brooklyn yeshivas receiving special education services. Despite yeshiva after yeshiva notifying the Times before the article was published that its figures were off, the Times reported them as fact.

One yeshiva, which was singled out in the article as having 59% of its students receiving services, went so far as to hire a lawyer to let the Times know it was about to print falsehoods about them because the fact was that less than 20% of students receives such services. A New York Times lawyer wrote back to defend its story, saying that “there is no explanation for why the City and State – which could provide independent and authoritative data – were wrong and should be disbelieved.”

The problem for the Times is that there WAS an explanation for why the data it was relying on should be disbelieved. In fact, it was Brian Rosenthal himself who provided that explanation.

PEARLS has obtained an email that Rosenthal sent to the State Education Department about problems with the data about the number of yeshiva students receiving special education services that it had sent him.

Rosenthal wrote that for several schools the State data claimed that “the number of students that they have classified as special ed is higher than their overall enrollment.”

That’s right, to support its claim that yeshivas have a high percentage of students receiving services the Times relied on data that it knew had to be false because the number of students it claimed were receiving special services was greater than the number of students  enrolled in the school!

That didn’t stop Rosenthal or the Times from printing its erroneous claims about yeshivas.  Their journalistic integrity was as corrupted as the data they relied on.

Rabbi Moshe Dovid Niederman, a member of PEARLS executive board, told YWN that “this proves what we and the Orthodox community have been saying all along.  The Times wasn’t objectively reporting facts about yeshivas but was pushing its anti-yeshiva narrative.  Now that they have been exposed, they should do the only decent thing they can do:  issue a public apology to yeshivas and the yeshiva community.”

Attorney Avi Schick told YWN that “the Times likes to put others under the spotlight but now its own conduct will be under scrutiny.  It is normally very difficult to establish that a journalist acted with actual malice.  But the revelation of this email demonstrates that Rosenthal knew the data he was relying on wasn’t accurate.  That is the kind of thing that can give a lawsuit legs and allow it it get to the discovery phase where the Times would have to disclose its own internal communications.”

Education experts consulted by YWN explained that the State data likely contained cumulative rather than annual figures for schools.  In other words, it included students who had received services in prior years but who had already graduated or had left the school.

The New York Times likes to conduct  investigations.  We suggest they undertake a thorough and transparent investigation of their coverage of the Orthodox community in New York.

YWN Editorial Board
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1792 on: June 29, 2023, 11:43:05 AM »


Well, thanks, though I wish the story was sent to outlets other than YWN.

Offline dovy2

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1793 on: June 29, 2023, 03:04:14 PM »
I've said it in the past, but now it seems that that school does have clear grounds for defamation case.
 
Quote
To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject
(From Google)

As long as the school can claim loss of reputation, loss of donors etc... I think they should go ahead (mainly for the publicity this will bring, highlighting the falsehoods, and minimize future attack pieces.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1794 on: June 29, 2023, 03:09:59 PM »
I've said it in the past, but now it seems that that school does have clear grounds for defamation case.
 (From Google)

As long as the school can claim loss of reputation, loss of donors etc... I think they should go ahead (mainly for the publicity this will bring, highlighting the falsehoods, and minimize future attack pieces.

How does this prove any loss of reputation, donors, etc.?

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1795 on: June 29, 2023, 03:12:27 PM »
I think a reasonable case can be made of loss of reputation - someone reading the article definitely forms a lower opinion of yeshivas and the jewish community.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1796 on: June 29, 2023, 03:21:32 PM »
I think a reasonable case can be made of loss of reputation - someone reading the article definitely forms a lower opinion of yeshivas and the jewish community.

You said 2 different things.
1) The yeshivas - how are you going to prove that?
2) the Jewish community - a) who exactly is going to sue? b) again, prove it. Prove what loses where had.

This story is based on one Yeshivah lawyering up, though I don't think any suits have been filed. I don't think you can expect much more than a correction, and you'd be lucky to get that.

Offline dovy2

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1797 on: June 29, 2023, 03:25:33 PM »
How does this prove any loss of reputation, donors, etc.?
This doesn't prove the loss, but does pass the other three points. During covid, there were many ways to prove loss of donors, and I don't see why this can't be done here.
If this school already lawyered up, they should continue all the way.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1798 on: June 29, 2023, 03:28:39 PM »
This doesn't prove the loss, but does pass the other three points. During covid, there were many ways to prove loss of donors, and I don't see why this can't be done here.
If this school already lawyered up, they should continue all the way.

I am willing to bet that the Yeshiva donors would be more likely to increase their donations based on the NYT reporting than decrease them.

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: NY Times vs. Chassidim
« Reply #1799 on: June 29, 2023, 03:59:28 PM »
I am willing to bet that the Yeshiva donors would be more likely to increase their donations based on the NYT reporting than decrease them.
I don’t the know the legal term but what does loss of reputation have to do with money ?
A very negative article in one of the biggest news papers in the country should in of itself be considered damaging.