NY Times vs. Chassidim

[S209]

Just trying to understand your position. Since closer to no it must be something other than money that you disagree with the two statements. Care to elaborate or if not no problem?

The figure is misleadingly large by combining multiple years (it’s always easy to reach a large sounding number by casually combining a few years worth of funding) among all Orthodox Jewish schools (not just Chasidish which was what the article was slamming) and mostly funding for programs that are one time assistance (such as COVID funds) or only tangentially related to education, if at all (such as low income food assistance).

It is also missing vital context in that while a billion sounds large, the amount of money spent on education as a whole in NY during that period was well north of 100 billion. If they would have included that figure the billion wouldn’t have sounded quite so imposing.

[imayid2]

For details on education, yes. For your chances of getting randomly assaulted in NY, no.

I cannot wrap my head around the fact people here are defending this article. I’m sure many/most/all people here would not agree with many things Satmar chooses. But this hate fostering article is inexcusable.

[Alexsei]

At least now I have one less reason to learn English, the NYT is available in Yiddish!

[Alexsei]

I cannot wrap my head around the fact people here are defending this article. I’m sure many/most/all people here would not agree with many things Satmar chooses. But this hate fostering article is inexcusable.

The people pushing the article surely made a risk benefit analyses and ultimately decided it was the best platform to get the most satmar people to read it

[CountValentine]

The figure is misleadingly large by combining multiple years (it’s always easy to reach a large sounding number by casually combining a few years worth of funding) among all Orthodox Jewish schools (not just Chasidish which was what the article was slamming) and mostly funding for programs that are one time assistance (such as COVID funds) or only tangentially related to education, if at all (such as low income food assistance).

It is also missing vital context in that while a billion sounds large, the amount of money spent on education as a whole in NY during that period was well north of 100 billion. If they would have included that figure the billion wouldn’t have sounded quite so imposing.

I understand you dispute the money number they use, and I agree with you. I was trying to take the money issue (amount) out of the equation to see if you agreed with:

As I read it, the article is making two points: 
1. Hasidic schools are not providing a secular education. 
2. They are taking money meant to support students in schools that provide a secular education.

Which of those are you saying is untrue?

[S209]

I understand you dispute the money number they use, and I agree with you. I was trying to take the money issue (amount) out of the equation to see if you agreed with:

Honestly to some extent I agree that if schools take funding they may be required to provide some education that the State feels necessary.

I mostly object to this article because of its tone and ad hominem smears. I also oppose many specific details of what is currently proposed as well as the attitude of “coming down hard” on Yeshivos, not least because the people behind the current campaign have shown malicious intent. However, I do believe some of the overall campaign has merit, though it needs to be approached with extreme caution as any outside meddling in Yeshuva curriculum can set a dangerous precedent.

I believe in providing a secular education, and the school I send to provides an excellent education. I personally took the NY Regents Exams and averaged 90%+ across all of them, so you can definitely make the case the Orthodox Jewish high school I attended provided an adequate education (as do many others, but don’t look to The NY Times to tell you that).

[Yehuda57]

As I read it, the article is making two points: 
1. Hasidic schools are not providing a secular education. 
2. They are taking money meant to support students in schools that provide a secular education.

Which of those are you saying is untrue?

I have a relatively minuscule following on Twitter. If you take out relatives (and DDFers? lol), it's barely a handful. I tweeted about this issue - not addressing the article or the education issue directly, but a side point related to it. These are among the responses:







The two points you mention are but a pretext for an anti-Chareidi screed.

The thing is, it's been tried before, and it will be tried again. We've survived worse, and we'll survive this too. I can't think of a better response than these mugshots of chassidim who were tortured and/or killed for running underground chadorim:

https://twitter.com/dovidmargolin/status/1569017039112519680

(Click through to see the whole thread, it's well worth it)

[gozalim]

If this was about taking away the few cents and tying strings to the money, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
BOR wants to take away the educational and religious freedom from thousands of parents. They know better than to do that without laying the propaganda groundwork. The propaganda department at NYT was only too happy to participate. Using the standard "money grubbing Jews" trope

[S209]

If this was about taking away the few cents and tying strings to the money, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
BOR wants to take away the educational and religious freedom from thousands of parents. They know better than to do that without laying the propaganda groundwork. The propaganda department at NYT was only too happy to participate. Using the standard "money grubbing Jews" trope

Well said.

[Pony]

https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/09/11/long-hyped-new-york-times-investigation-of-hasidic-yeshivas-fizzles/

[Dave321]

Heres a solution. Enroll every single private kid school into the public school system. Let the scene play out for itself.

[CountValentine]

Heres a solution. Enroll every single private kid school into the public school system. Let the scene play out for itself.

You would not like the results.

[Dan]

You would not like the results.

A school system meltdown?
Is there a K-12 headcount of NYC public vs private students?

[dovy2]

Heres a solution. Enroll every single private kid school into the public school system. Let the scene play out for itself.

This has been suggested so many times.. is there really any harm in testing it out? Just Satmar alone is 10k+ kids in one tiny area.. one could happen already? Worst case, if they actually figure out a way to handle them, no one shows up to school the first day. But they'll still have to scramble and find another 1000 teachers.
(In Crown heights it won't work as a test run, because they do actually have a few empty buildings in the area)

[CountValentine]

A school system meltdown?

Your taxes would go up and your kids would get mostly if not all secular studies.

[Oiheivyisroel]

One thing that I didn’t see anyone mentioning here, is. The timing this article was published. They’re working on it for two years, and wonders, it’s released just a day before the BOR votes on the new regulations for our schools. I know that the headline was based on the money taken, but that’s just a way to draw attention from the outsiders since they don’t care about our education - why should they? And once the atmosphere is that the government should make changes, the vote results are defined…

Those unsuccessful people were interviewed in this article, not to shed light on the money taking. They talk about one thing, the way we educate our kids, to paint a dark image of our educational system.

The atmosphere in the media forms public policy and court rulings. It's a fact! And that's what they wanted to achieve, nothing else.

[Dave321]

Your taxes would go up and your kids would get mostly if not all secular studies.

it will never happen. If 100k plus kids enroll it will melt the system and the department of ed will come crawling back begging the private schools to get back to regular order of business.

[CountValentine]

it will never happen. If 100k plus kids enroll it will melt the system and the department of ed will come crawling back begging the private schools to get back to regular order of business.

It would take time, but they would absorb them all. If all kids went to public schools it would improve the system.

[Dan]

If all kids went to public schools it would improve the system.

How so? There's no infrastructure to support hundreds of thousands of new kids.
New taxes need a referendum.

[CountValentine]

How so? There's no infrastructure to support hundreds of thousands of new kids.
New taxes need a referendum.

It would take time to absorb all the kids. You wouldn't have each side trying to bring down each other and they would have to work together to improve the system.

I think something we all agree on is our public school system is need of help.

New taxes for education are probably the easiest thing to get passed.