NY Times vs. Chassidim

[saul613]

Here is what I mean. You go to a public grammar school. You learn your religious beliefs at home or after school.
You would grow up orthodox with secular studies.

And what's wrong with doing it the other way around?

[CountValentine]

This is about the NYT article. If they would have gone after a specific group of my brothers and sisters who have the "Satmar" moniker attached to them, then the answer to your question would have been yes. Butso the answer is no.

Here is the issue. You are taking about the article, and I am talking about the law on the books.
I have said many times what I thought about the article.

[biobook]

Correct, my maternal grandfather is 10 years younger than my paternal grandfather, may they and their spouses both live and be well until 180.

If you don't mind answering, I'm wondering where your paternal grandparents got their elementary/high school education?

[imayid2]

Maybe I'm addressing a different point.
What was your point again?

From a government standpoint, not what you think is proper for Judaism.

They should be enforced for secular people. Not deeply religious groups who’ve been educating their children in certain ways for hundreds of years. That would be quite contrary to the core values of this country.

[CountValentine]

And what's wrong with doing it the other way around?

I wonder if you could. If you show your child was home-schooled at home in secular studies, I wonder if that would pass the mustard test.

[EliJelly]

No I don't know every religion's religious beliefs. Is there a religion where one of their beliefs is secular studies can't be taught in school?

I can't speak for other religions, but for my religion it's not that we *can't* teach secular studies in elementary school, but that we and only we, have discretion of what we teach our kids.

[EliJelly]

FWIU they would oppose being taught the English language.

I'm not sure you have this right.

[CountValentine]

I can't speak for other religions, but for my religion it's not that we *can't* teach secular studies in elementary school, but that we and only we, have discretion of what we teach our kids.

So the question comes back to what authority the state should have.
IMHO everything else is noise and this is the issue.

[Oiheivyisroel]

No I don't know every religion's religious beliefs. Is there a religion where one of their beliefs is secular studies can't be taught in school?

It’s not always about the ‘not,’ it’s about what we want our further generations to be.

We hope and pray that our children should be G-d fearing, G-d loving, Torah scholars, who stay away from anything forbidden, and run after every Mitzvah and good deed. They should ‘also’ have a good parnassah, etc.

There are others who hope and pray, that there kids should have college degrees, comfortable in the secular world, open minded, etc. and they should “also” be Jewish.

Both are Jewish and maybe even orthodox, but their “beliefs” are far apart!

[imayid2]

I'm not sure you have this right.

Have you seen the will of the Sanzer Rov?

[biobook]

From a government standpoint, not what you think is proper for Judaism.

My question was one about history.  What do you know about the history of orthodox Jewish education in America?

[imayid2]

My question was one about history.  What do you know about the history of orthodox Jewish education in America?

Why were you responding to my point with an unrelated question?

[WAM]

Here is the issue. You are taking about the article, and I am talking about the law on the books.
I have said many times what I thought about the article.

Fair enough.
The article is trash and you agree.

If you are asking if this particular law will only affect one particular sect of religious Jews, the answer is no.

[EliJelly]

Have you seen the will of the Sanzer Rov?

There was no stronger Chossid of the holy Sanzer rov than the Satmar rebbe, yet he implemented English teaching in his yeshiva.

[CountValentine]

Fair enough.
The article is trash and you agree.

Should I bring out Chaim? 
I have said over and over it was a one-sided hit piece. To move it to the trash bin I would need questions answered about the article.

[Dan]

So this is about one sect of Orthodox Judaism?

If you are asking if this particular law will only affect one particular sect of religious Jews, the answer is no.

Not one sect per se, but pretty much exclusively affecting Hasidic vs Modern Orthodox/Yeshivish/other Orthodox Jews.

[biobook]

Why were you responding to my point with an unrelated question?

Because this is DDF.

[imayid2]

There was no stronger Chossid of the holy Sanzer rov than the Satmar rebbe, yet he implemented English teaching in his yeshiva.

I am not qualified to discuss this further I take your word it.
But are all of these religious groups theoretically ok with everything being mandated to be taught? If there are ones that have opposition to certain studies it shouldn’t be imposed on them.

[CountValentine]

It’s not always about the ‘not,’ it’s about what we want our further generations to be.

We hope and pray that our children should be G-d fearing, G-d loving, Torah scholars, who stay away from anything forbidden, and run after every Mitzvah and good deed. They should ‘also’ have a good parnassah, etc.

There are others who hope and pray, that there kids should have college degrees, comfortable in the secular world, open minded, etc. and they should “also” be Jewish.

Both are Jewish and maybe even orthodox, but their “beliefs” are far apart!

Will teaching math in school stop any of that from happening?
It seems I have more faith in the Jewish people than the Jewish people do.

[CountValentine]

Why were you responding to my point with an unrelated question?

You have some nerve.