NY Times vs. Chassidim

[Oiheivyisroel]

To set the record straight. Probably 90% of orthodox schools and communities in NY oppose the government oversight of secular studies in our institutions. Although every community has its own way of measuring how much time they should spend on these studies, in their schools.

Satmar doesn’t want that the Agudah schools should learn as much as they do, and vice versa. But we all agree that our religious leaders should guide our education.

Reminds me of those times when the Puritz had to appoint the Rav….

[biobook]

Following the flow of the discussion. CV was asking if one attending PS and learning religion at home can still grow up orthodox Jews, to which I responded:

You answered your relatives went that route. When CV asked how did they fare with their religious believes, you gave your examples and I gave mine.

Still not sure what you meant. That you also had relatives who attended public school and learned religion at home?

[imayid2]

I have always been for enforcing laws.

This becomes a problem when the law is wrong.

[Oiheivyisroel]

Should I bring out Chaim? 
I have said over and over it was a one-sided hit piece. To move it to the trash bin I would need questions answered about the article.

We keep answering time and again, and you still didn't move it... You want different answers I guess...

[biobook]

To set the record straight. Probably 90% of orthodox schools and communities in NY oppose the government oversight of secular studies in our institutions.

What do you base this on? 

[Oiheivyisroel]

What do you base this on?

The Agudah askanim don't go in the mikvah every day.... And the sat at askanim don't go to the Kosel... But they both agree on that issue.

[CountValentine]

This becomes a problem when the law is wrong.

Then you work to change them legally.
If laws were not enforced every time a group thought they were wrong we would have no laws.

[CountValentine]

We keep answering time and again, and you still didn't move it... You want different answers I guess...

Look we got the money issue straightened out. The figure was totally misleading.
Then I asked about the one school in the article they claimed all failed. Did that happen?

[Dan]

Then you work to change them legally.
If laws were not enforced every time a group thought they were wrong we would have no laws.

The question is, do the laws conflict with the first amendment?
Neither side wants that question to go to SCOTUS...

[Dan]

Look we got the money issue straightened out. The figure was totally misleading.
Then I asked about the one school in the article they claimed all failed. Did that happen?

I have been in Jewish schools with proctored tests where they encouraged us to not waste time with it and get it over with ASAP. They didn't give enough time to actually take the test.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is done at more schools that are doing it just for funding or other requirements.

[CountValentine]

The question is, do the laws conflict with the first amendment?
Neither side wants that question to go to SCOTUS...

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I want it to go no matter what they decide.

[biobook]

The Agudah askanim don't go in the mikvah every day.... And the sat at askanim don't go to the Kosel... But they both agree on that issue.

These askanim have chosen to represent their view of the issue this way, but it doesn't necessarily represent 100% of orthodox schools.

Most orthodox schools have adhered to government standards on secular education for generations.

[Dan]

I want it to go no matter what they decide.

That's because you aren't on either side

[imayid2]

Then you work to change them legally.

That is what is being attempted. But you said instead of it being changed, it should be enforced. Is this a retraction?

[EliJelly]

Will teaching math in school stop any of that from happening?
It seems I have more faith in the Jewish people than the Jewish people do.

Lol.. You won't understand it but I'll post it anyway, maybe others can explain it better. We're extra extra cautious about the sincerity and piety in which we and our future generations follow Yiddishkeit. So right, we don't just have faith that things will continue, it's a life long battle to stay on guard.

There is a famous story with the Chazon Ish. One asked him if he may join the army (or go to collage, I don't recall exactly) so the Ch"I asked him if there will be any situations where he wouldn't be able to follow every mitzva/hallacha etc. To with he answered no, but he might become "קאלט" in yiddiskeit, to which the Chazon Ish famously said "קאלטקייט אין אידישקייט איז ביהרג ואל יעבור".

[CountValentine]

I have been in Jewish schools with proctored tests where they encouraged us to not waste time with it and get it over with ASAP. They didn't give enough time to actually take the test.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is done at more schools that are doing it just for funding or other requirements.

So it would be true they all failed but a logical reason why?

[Dan]

These askanim have chosen to represent their view of the issue this way, but it doesn't necessarily represent 100% of orthodox schools.

Most orthodox schools have adhered to government standards on secular education for generations.

Likely because that's what their parent body desires.

[CountValentine]

That's because you aren't on either side

...but I am. I am strongly for secular studies.

Wait was that /s?

[imayid2]

You have some nerve. 

My questions are always related

[EliJelly]

Still not sure what you meant. That you also had relatives who attended public school and learned religion at home?

Oy