NY Times vs. Chassidim

[Oiheivyisroel]

Look we got the money issue straightened out. The figure was totally misleading.
Then I asked about the one school in the article they claimed all failed. Did that happen?

Send that test to me, I wasn't in that school but in its cousin….

[Dan]

...but I am. I am strongly for secular studies.

Wait was that /s?

In that case, you probably shouldn't want it to go to this SCOTUS

[CountValentine]

That is what is being attempted. But you said instead of it being changed, it should be enforced. Is this a retraction?

It should be enforced until changed. I would have no issue with SCOTUS putting a hold on it but IIRC it doesn't start until Dec 2023?

[CountValentine]

In that case, you probably shouldn't want it to go to this SCOTUS

Do you know I am MrGoalposts? 

[Dan]

It should be enforced until changed.

Lol.. You won't understand it but I'll post it anyway, maybe others can explain it better. We're extra extra cautious about the sincerity and piety in which we and our future generations follow Yiddishkeit. So right, we don't just have faith that things will continue, it's a life long battle to stay on guard.

There is a famous story with the Chazon Ish. One asked him if he may join the army (or go to collage, I don't recall exactly) so the Ch"I asked him if there will be any situations where he wouldn't be able to follow every mitzva/hallacha etc. To with he answered no, but he might become "קאלט" in yiddiskeit, to which the Chazon Ish famously said "קאלטקייט אין אידישקייט איז ביהרג ואל יעבור".

Why not translate to make it understandable?

קאלט=Cold
קאלטקייט אין אידישקייט איז ביהרג ואל יעבור=Coldness in Judaism is something that we must allow ourselves to be martyred over before allowing to happen.

[Dan]

קאלטקייט אין אידישקייט איז ביהרג ואל יעבור=Coldness in Judaism is something that we must allow ourselves to be martyred over before allowing to happen.

AKA

Rabbi Braun of CH:
https://streamable.com/m7i74a

AKA, it'll never work. Especially not by government edict.

[EliJelly]

Why not translate to make it understandable?

Thanks. I figured not just the words but the whole gist of it.

[imayid2]

These laws have been on the books for many years. Either enforce them or get rid of them. IMHO they should be enforced.

It should be enforced until changed.

So which one is it

MrGoalposts?

[CountValentine]

Thanks. I figured not just the words but the whole gist of it.

Appreciate that but the words were stronger.

[aygart]

Why are you lumping all groups together and why are you talking about American specifically?
Notice: I said “groups”.

How many non-chassidish schools were there in the entire North America without secular studies 30 years ago?

[CountValentine]

So which one is it

1 plus 1 equal 2 and one more equal 3.

[imayid2]

How many non-chassidish schools were there in the entire North America without secular studies 30 years ago?

I would assume zero. What is the relevance of this question?

[imayid2]

1 plus 1 equal 2 and one more equal 3.

I’m going to assume this means you think it should be changed to accommodate peoples religious beliefs. I agree!

[Oiheivyisroel]

1 plus 1 equal 2 and one more equal 3.

That’s a PS student! Knows math by heart…😉

[CountValentine]

I’m going to assume this means you think it should be changed to accommodate peoples religious beliefs. I agree!

It means exactly what I said.
It is the law so enforce it.
If you believe it is wrong, then worked to change it.
Until that happens it should be enforced.
Any other questions for MrGoalposts? 

[CountValentine]

That’s a PS student! Knows math by heart…😉

Actually I had trig as a sophomore in HS. It served me well MSing. 
Now I flunked English Lit as a freshman.   

[imayid2]

It means exactly what I said.
It is the law so enforce it.
If you believe it is wrong, then worked to change it.
Until that happens it should be enforced.
Any other questions for MrGoalposts? 

Yes. Do you believe it is wrong? To force a law like this on an insular group who’s ideological beliefs deeply oppose the curriculum or amount of time mandated to spend on it?

[biobook]

How many non-chassidish schools were there in the entire North America without secular studies 30 years ago?

I would assume zero. What is the relevance of this question?

You seem to have implied that orthodox Jews have been intentionally avoiding secular education for hundreds of years.

They should be enforced for secular people. Not deeply religious groups who’ve been educating their children in certain ways for hundreds of years. That would be quite contrary to the core values of this country.

But that wasn't true for the vast majority of orthodox Jews in America for the past 100 years. 

[CountValentine]

Yes. Do you believe it is wrong? To force a law like this on an insular group who’s ideological beliefs deeply oppose the curriculum or amount of time mandated to spend on it?

No but I am not qualified to answer that constitutional question.

[yelped]

Yes. Do you believe it is wrong? To force a law like this on an insular group who’s ideological beliefs deeply oppose the curriculum or amount of time mandated to spend on it?

You're really going on a tangent here, almost no one has issues with learning secular subjects per se, they just either don't want to be forced to do it by the government, opening up doors for mandates on time or subjects, or don't want to devote "equivalent" time. If it wasn't for the first issue, I would be fine with equivalent or better results (I don't believe you need the time allowed in PS, as long as the kids are willing to learn).