NY Times vs. Chassidim

[AsherO]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-campaign-against-our-yeshivas-education-new-york-board-regents-investigation-hasidic-school-activists-11663279661

Nice op-ed. it’s not particularly sophisticated but to very much to the point.

Nice comment there from someone who goes by George Martin:

Religious education is abhorred by totalitarian government for two (2) reasons;
1.0 Religion tends to make individuals less dependent on the state and interdependent on each other.  This makes the state less powerful.
2.0 Education, when it achieves its best goal, enables thought and discussion among people.  A totalitarian state cannot tolerate an educated population.
Thus, effective Jewish education must be exterminated, a word that I chose and do not use lightly.

[biobook]

Nice op-ed. it’s not particularly sophisticated but to very much to the point.

Nice, clear, confident, gracious.  Not snide or angry like other responses we've seen.  I don't see it anything unsophisticated about it.

[CountValentine]

Nice, clear, confident, gracious.  Not snide or angry like other responses we've seen.  I don't see it anything unsophisticated about it.

Was nicely written even if with one slight inaccuracy.
"The effort is made worse by the fact that government intrusion into our religious education is a clear violation of our right to free exercise, enshrined in the Constitution."

[imayid2]

Was nicely written even if with one slight inaccuracy.
"The effort is made worse by the fact that government intrusion into our religious education is a clear violation of our right to free exercise, enshrined in the Constitution."

Nothing inaccurate about that

[imayid2]

Nothing inaccurate about that

SCOTUS can be wrong you know. It’s happened before 

[CountValentine]

Nothing inaccurate about that

I will let SCOTUS decide that.

[imayid2]

I will let SCOTUS decide that.

I preempted this

[CountValentine]

I preempted this

You lost your preemptive rights when you posted that bogus case to support this one. 

[biobook]

In Europe there was deep opposition to secular instruction.

For most of those hundreds of years, the deep opposition to secular instruction came from the non-Jews who opposed admission of Jews to their institutions.  Is this the tradition they're keeping alive?

Um... Volozhin 1792?

The Volozhin Yeshiva had what?  50?...100?...400? students a year, at a time when the Jewish population of Russia was 5,000,000. 

You might argue for reforming American yeshivas so that they resemble that format, but it wouldn't be accurate to say that that was ever the traditional educational experience for East European Jews. 

[farmbochur]

Actually I had trig as a sophomore in HS. It served me well MSing.

How so?

[imayid2]

Um... Volozhin 1792?


The Volozhin Yeshiva had what?  50?...100?...400? students a year, at a time when the Jewish population of Russia was 5,000,000. 

You might argue for reforming American yeshivas so that they resemble that format, but it wouldn't be accurate to say that that was ever the traditional educational experience for East European Jews.

You are hopelessly wrong here.
Also, did you take any courses in how to miss points?

[biobook]

You are hopelessly wrong here.
Also, did you take any courses in how to miss points?

You are hopefully adept at righting wrongs, not just pointing at them.

[AsherO]

Nice, clear, confident, gracious.  Not snide or angry like other responses we've seen.  I don't see it anything unsophisticated about it.

I meant it wasn’t technical or trying to undermine NYT article’s claims using citations/data from elsewhere. It was very matter of factly.

[Yehuda57]

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-hasidic-families-deserve-choice-20220913-qq42ip5nwfeixp6gpcjy63moge-story.html

[biobook]

I meant it wasn’t technical or trying to undermine NYT article’s claims using citations/data from elsewhere. It was very matter of factly.

Appropriate for a personal-experience essay.  I'm sure we'll see some academic or organizational types weighing in with more formal evidence.

[jj1000]

Here is what I mean. You go to a public grammar school. You learn your religious beliefs at home or after school.
You would grow up orthodox with secular studies.

Aha, I hear that. I don't necessarily disagree.

Though there is a concept of not putting challenges in front of yourself. And going to public high school is definitely one of the biggest challenges you can give a religious teenager.

[CountValentine]

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-hasidic-families-deserve-choice-20220913-qq42ip5nwfeixp6gpcjy63moge-story.html

One of the better articles I have seen.

[jj1000]

One of the better articles I have seen.

Eli (the author) is a great guy, next time you are in Miami you'll have to come Bow Fishing with us

[imayid2]

You are hopefully adept at righting wrongs, not just pointing at them.

That would be an absolute distraction to the very real issue at hand, which I have not seen you adequately decry as of yet. But perhaps it’s not too late?

[Alexsei]

OT but relevant point

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