Author Topic: NY Times vs. Chassidim  (Read 127543 times)

Offline avromie7

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I stated a fact.  They do fact check, although that doesn't mean that they necessarily get everything right.  I had the same response when reading the Chabad line.  But still, someone writing an op-ed should understand that they need to try to be truthful.

What makes me doubt this is the exaggerated language.  Someone has shoelaces tied together every day, and never thinks to change their style of shoe or shoelaces?  Spitballs are nonstop every day?  A child is stabbed every day and teachers and parents do nothing?
I think you misread it. OP is saying they were harassed every day, and giving examples of what that harassment consisted of.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline biobook

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I think you misread it. OP is saying they were harassed every day, and giving examples of what that harassment consisted of.
I don't think I misread this:
Every day, non-stop spitballs, shoelaces being tied together, spit on face, stabbed, punched that I stopped breathing, rocks thrown on head, sperm put into ears.
Perhaps it was miswritten.

Offline EliJelly

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I don't think I misread this:Perhaps it was miswritten.

It was written out of anguish!

Offline avromie7

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I don't think I misread this:Perhaps it was miswritten.
Maybe, but you should be able to figure that out without writing off the entire post as false.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

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I don't think I misread this:Perhaps it was miswritten.
I didn't understand it to mean each thing happened every day
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Oiheivyisroel

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I don't think I misread this:Perhaps it was miswritten.

Speaking about symptoms of CPTSD…
Am Yisroel have no fear, Moshiach will be here this year!

Offline em0616

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I stated a fact.  They do fact check, although that doesn't mean that they necessarily get everything right.  I had the same response when reading the Chabad line.  But still, someone writing an op-ed should understand that they need to try to be truthful.

What makes me doubt this is the exaggerated language.  Someone has shoelaces tied together every day, and never thinks to change their style of shoe or shoelaces?  Spitballs are nonstop every day?  A child is stabbed every day and teachers and parents do nothing?

Well almost always something happened almost every single day.  The bullies were usually Hispanics, Italians, and Irish. (Schools were in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn) The teachers in most cases didn't do anything. I was in tears, and one of the students told a teacher, "When he grows up he is going to become a serial killer." The teacher replied, "What is he going to do, kill people, and put cereal in their mouths?".

Assistant principal witnessed a Hispanic punching me, it was two feet away from her. And he shouted answering that I stepped on his foot. He got suspended for a day, and came back the day after with more vengeance.

I didn't know how to defend myself, and I was extremely quiet, I didn't know how to express myself. The one time in High School, after I left school walking home, I was attacked, and that time it was an Israeli kid, I defended myself, and hit him back. I was suspended from school.
Father came to school bunch of times, only to complain of the low level of education, as when he was in school, they were learning in middle school, what they now learn in university (in terms of math). 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 03:54:02 PM by em0616 »

Offline Alexsei

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Leftists gonna left, there's a pre conceived bias, and they know what they want to accomplish, what narrative they want to drive and what the outcome should be, the reporters pick and choose stories that fit  and highlight lines that portray the picture they want to be painted, the damage is done.
Jews ≠ Zionists
Palestinians ≠ Hamas
Satmar ≠ SatmarHQ

Offline Oiheivyisroel

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Anyone ever saw an NYPD - school safety department - car, outside a Chasidic school? I lived a few blocks away from a PS in Brooklyn, there were always such cars outside. Did you ever have a Chasidic kid running after you in the streets, puling your hair, screaming at you, spitting in your face? Well, I had that from the PS students.

Basic skills. Ha?
Am Yisroel have no fear, Moshiach will be here this year!

Offline ExGingi

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Well almost always something happened almost every single day.  The bullies were usually Hispanics, Italians, and Irish. (Schools were in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn) The teachers in most cases didn't do anything. I was in tears, and one of the students told a teacher, "When he grows up he is going to become a serial killer." The teacher replied, "What is he going to do, kill people, and put cereal in their mouths?".

Assistant principal witnessed a Hispanic punching me, it was two feet away from her. And he shouted answering that I stepped on his foot. He got suspended for a day, and came back the day after with more vengeance.

I didn't know how to defend myself, and I was extremely quiet, I didn't know how to express myself. The one time in High School, after I left school walking home, I was attacked, and that time it was an Israeli kid, I defended myself, and hit him back. I was suspended from school.
Father came to school bunch of times, only to complain of the low level of education, as when he was in school, they were learning in middle school, what they now learn in university (in terms of math).

Would love to have a face-off of your experience vs Mos(t)er's perceptions. He is a miserable soul.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline biobook

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Well almost always something happened almost every single day.  The bullies were usually Hispanics, Italians, and Irish. (Schools were in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn) The teachers in most cases didn't do anything. I was in tears, and one of the students told a teacher, "When he grows up he is going to become a serial killer." The teacher replied, "What is he going to do, kill people, and put cereal in their mouths?".

Assistant principal witnessed a Hispanic punching me, it was two feet away from her. And he shouted answering that I stepped on his foot. He got suspended for a day, and came back the day after with more vengeance.

I didn't know how to defend myself, and I was extremely quiet, I didn't know how to express myself. The one time in High School, after I left school walking home, I was attacked, and that time it was an Israeli kid, I defended myself, and hit him back. I was suspended from school.
Father came to school bunch of times, only to complain of the low level of education, as when he was in school, they were learning in middle school, what they now learn in university (in terms of math).
@em0616, I apologize if my previous response offended you.  You obviously have an interesting background and probably many more fascinating stories to tell.

Offline UKinNYS

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Offline em0616

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Anyone ever saw an NYPD - school safety department - car, outside a Chasidic school? I lived a few blocks away from a PS in Brooklyn, there were always such cars outside. Did you ever have a Chasidic kid running after you in the streets, puling your hair, screaming at you, spitting in your face? Well, I had that from the PS students.

Basic skills. Ha?

Go to google or news.google.com, and search with keywords like guns, drugs, metal detectors, & NYC public schools.

ie: https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/10/25/22745727/nyc-adding-more-metal-detectors-and-police-to-public-schools
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/05/25/nyc-schools-seeing-jump-in-weapons-confiscations--nypd-says
https://nypost.com/2021/12/03/fearful-nyc-high-school-students-arming-themselves-for-protection/

Offline imayid2

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Let parents bring up their children as they choose. It’s as simple as that. Remember, it’s New York, they could’ve aborted their child up to who knows when. Freedom Of Choice! @CountValentine will back me up on this! No forcing morals on others!

Offline AsherO

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Let parents bring up their children as they choose. It’s as simple as that. Remember, it’s New York, they could’ve aborted their child up to who knows when. Freedom Of Choice! @CountValentine will back me up on this! No forcing morals on others!

“Abort all you want, but if you’re gonna choose to have kids, they better be raised Woke”…
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Offline em0616

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@em0616, I apologize if my previous response offended you.  You obviously have an interesting background and probably many more fascinating stories to tell.

Well it was my fault with my wording/grammar. I ended up running away from home,  I somehow found my way to Williamsburg, and it was Satmar families who were extremely mekarev me, and gave me the self-esteem and human dignity, and it was Satmar owned business that gave me parnasah (specifically B&H).

Offline AsherO

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Well it was my fault with my wording/grammar. I ended up running away from home,  I somehow found my way to Williamsburg, and it was Satmar families who were extremely mekarev me, and gave me the self-esteem and human dignity, and it was Satmar owned business that gave me parnasah (specifically B&H).

What you’re sharing is both heartbreaking and beautiful. Would love to hear more of your story if you’re comfortable sharing, this likely isn’t the right thread for that.
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Offline biobook

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Well it was my fault with my wording/grammar. I ended up running away from home,  I somehow found my way to Williamsburg, and it was Satmar families who were extremely mekarev me, and gave me the self-esteem and human dignity, and it was Satmar owned business that gave me parnasah (specifically B&H).
I'm sure many will find your story fascinating and inspiring.  Maybe someone here can help you write it. 

If you were in B&H's laptop division a few years ago, thanks for your help!  :)

Offline AsherO

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Leil is a treasure - and a fantastic writer  :)
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/plot-against-hasidic-education-new-york-times

Very interesting, but he’s preaching to the choir.

Quote
Which leads us to a second, and much trickier task: answering what, precisely, these goals ought to be. Here’s a radical idea: Above all, we want students invested in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We want them to become neighbors who care for the needy next door. We want them to become children who care for their parents as they age. We want them to become siblings who support each other through life. We want them to become spouses who treat their husbands and wives with respect and reverence and love. We want them to become individuals who are self-confident, grateful to their Creator for all of His bounties, and mindful that true joy means balancing personal appetites with communal needs. We want them to be happy.

While I agree most of these are virtuous, the Times editors don’t care for many of these values and don’t agree with this set of goals. Their paraphrasing of the same paragraph would look VERY different.
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Offline biobook

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A few more comments.  Other than the ones I posted, the other >1000 are critical of Hasidic community. 

Cecelia
NY 51m ago

The NYT is reporting back to back articles singling out the Hasidic community - first the polio outbreak and now the corruption in the yeshivas.  There are definitely issues that need to be addressed within this community but I am concerned about the increase in hate crimes that will likely follow these publications.

Joe H
New Jersey54m ago

Why is this the Hasidic community's fault?  Why does the government continue to fund these schools without any oversight or accountability on how those funds are spent?

If this is how they choose to educate their children, that's their business.  The government isn't obligated to fund anything that doesn't comply with minimum standards that they are free to set.

Where's the expose on the government officials that are asleep at the wheel here?  Instead, this is a slander piece designed to provoke anger at a Jewish community.  Typical NYTimes "journalism".

Joe
New York City 56m ago

Continued: The reason why Hasidic communities have a high percentage under the federal poverty level is because we have lots of kids, which is part of our tradition. Not because we don't make money.

If you think we shouldn't have lots of kids if we're not making six digits, and if we do, we shouldn't get public assistance, you are a bigot, quite frankly. You would not say that about any other minority, or group which has many children.

JB
CA 58m ago

This article focuses on “Hasidic” schools, however, these issues exist at Lithuanian/“Yeshivish”/non-Chasidic schools well. Both groups are HAREDI, ultra-Orthodox (black-hat), and are often indistinguishable to outsiders. Investigators should look into the non-Chasidic Haredi schools as well.

Kasha
NY 58m ago

Sadly yet another instance of anti-semitism by the mainstream media.  Many I know say the Hasidic community is essentially to keeping schools and neighborhoods flourishing as they place huge importance on education.

Isac
Monroe, NY 1h ago

This report is misleading, more an opinion than fact.

Mo
DC 1h ago

I went to a Hassidic elementary school & later went to an ivy league law school. This article discusses real and troubling phenomena (such as illiterate English teachers, or extremist members of the community whose children don't speak English). But the overwhelming tone of the article is biased and glosses over the benefits of an alternative education system. If I had a time machine and could change things I would still have gone to my Hassidic alma matter.
 

As someone who has a foot in the Hassidic world- the 100% failure rate of the state education tests seems to indicate that the schools administered the tests wrongly or just told students to just fill out the answer sections without reading the tests in a cynical ploy to get state funds without properly administering the tests. I took those tests in elementary school and - while many of my classmates failed miserably - my reading was consistently graded on a college level. (iykyk that) A school like Bobov is likely to have some less extremist ("heimish") children in the school whose parents will supplement their English education with tutoring (by the parent or tutor - much like my own experience in a Hassidic yeshiva). All this points to a lack of cultural nuance in interpreting the data cited in this article.


I find the hasidiphobia and covert (and overt) antisemitism in the comments indicative of the biases and outright hatred of those involved in this campaign.