NY Times vs. Chassidim

[Dan]

I am going to guess CA has similar laws in not stricter. How do they handle it?
What about FL, OH or other states with large Jewish populations? They have similar laws? If so, how do they handle it?

I'd be surprised if there were any Jewish elementary schools or more than a small handful of high schools without secular studies in those states.

[Dan]

From my personal experience - I've been interviewed for roughly a dozen national publications (including CNBC, LA Times, CBS, BI, CR - never NYT) for dozens of articles and only once (the Verge) has anyone ever called to fact-check.

+1, every MSM publication has refused to let me see a pre-publication draft. Why was that done here?

[CountValentine]

I'd be surprised if there were any Jewish elementary schools or more than a small handful of high schools without secular studies in those states.

How do they handle it in your children's schools? Does learning secular studies interfere with religious studies?

[Dan]

How do they handle it in your children's schools? Does learning secular studies interfere with religious studies?

Somehow I managed a 1420/1600 SAT score with my Yeshiva education, but you wouldn't know that was possible from reading the NYT hit piece.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're still doing a decent job based on Rafi's last state testing 

[biobook]

Late to this thread, but in case these weren't addressed -

From my personal experience - I've been interviewed for roughly a dozen national publications (including CNBC, LA Times, CBS, BI, CR - never NYT) for dozens of articles and only once (the Verge) has anyone ever called to fact-check.

Fact checking is usually done by consulting a different source to try to verify information you gave - either another person or a written source.  This is not a fine-toothed review as a teacher might do on a term paper, and doesn't eliminate all inaccuracies but tries to minimize them.

When they're made aware of errors, they acknowledge some of them in a subsequent paper, usually things like names or dates.  Today for the first time I see a correction in a crossword puzzle clue.
https://www.nytimes.com/section/corrections

+1, every MSM publication has refused to let me see a pre-publication draft. Why was that done here?

I was also surprised by this, not only because they don't want you to demand change, but also because they don't want to be scooped on their scoop, as happened here.  The pre-pub critiques said things like "They will probably say..." and elsewhere I read that they were sent an outline, so it's not clear how detailed that draft was.  One tweet that included the message from the reporter said it was to give the recipient a chance to add info, can't remember where I saw that.

[CountValentine]

Somehow I managed a 1420/1600 SAT score with my Yeshiva education, but you wouldn't know that was possible from reading the NYT hit piece.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're still doing a decent job based on Rafi's last state testing 

Does this prove my point they can teach both (secular/religious) studies at the same time?
Didn't your son also win a spelling bee contest?

[WAM]

This is GD not JS!!!

Somebody will be reading through this thread in a few weeks wondering why you thought this is in GD.

[jj1000]

Does this prove my point they can teach both (secular/religious) studies at the same time?

Personal beliefs on secular subjects is irrelevant in regards to the article and legislation. We can believe our kids should get it, but that doesn't mean we believe the government should require it.

[daybyday]

Somehow I managed a 1420/1600 SAT score with my Yeshiva education, but you wouldn't know that was possible from reading the NYT hit piece.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're still doing a decent job based on Rafi's last state testing 

Ok, Dan let's be real I'm going to assume you probably didn't go to a chasidish yeshiva (many lubvitch yeshivas don't count as chassidish yeshiva in the context of this discussion).
Chasidish kids graduating from the typical chasidish high-school (satmer, bobov etc) would likely not be able to pass anything past elementary mathematics and their SAT score would most likely be abysmal. It's a sad state of affairs.
NYT is of course the optimity of anti-semites but that's a separate discussion.

[Dan]

Does this prove my point they can teach both (secular/religious) studies at the same time?
Didn't your son also win a spelling bee contest?

I don't think anyone is arguing that both can't be taught. Rafi's school runs from 745am-430pm with 3 hours of Math, Science, English, and Social Studies, along with religious studies, prayers, breakfast, lunch, recess, etc.
That being said, I don't think the government should be telling me how to educate my children.

And yes, he did

[yelped]

Does this prove my point they can teach both (secular/religious) studies at the same time?
Didn't your son also win a spelling bee contest?

Yes, and most schools do to an extent. To give equal time for both is not necessary, A. Because we can cover much more in a shorter amount of time than the PS system and achieve better results. B. Many of the concepts the students already encounter during the Judaic Studies part of the day.

I think 90% of parents would agree that we can improve the curriculum in many schools, but 99% of parents don't want the state and especially the media involved, and this NYT hit piece really proved them right.

[CountValentine]

Personal beliefs on secular subjects is irrelevant in regards to the article and legislation. We can believe our kids should get it, but that doesn't mean we believe the government should require it.

Secular studies are 100% relevant to the legislation.
So, the only thing we disagree to is if they should be required by the state/gov? 

[aygart]

Ok, Dan let's be real I'm going to assume you probably didn't go to a chasidish yeshiva (many lubvitch yeshivas don't count as chassidish yeshiva in the context of this discussion).
Chasidish kids graduating from the typical chasidish high-school (satmer, bobov etc) would likely not be able to pass anything past elementary mathematics and their SAT score would most likely be abysmal. It's a sad state of affairs.
NYT is of course the optimity of anti-semites but that's a separate discussion.

Why is SAT level math important to get through life?

[S209]

Secular studies are 100% relevant to the legislation.
So, the only thing we disagree to is if they should be required by the state/gov?

He said “Personal beliefs on secular education”.

[jj1000]

Ok, Dan let's be real I'm going to assume you probably didn't go to a chasidish yeshiva (many lubvitch yeshivas don't count as chassidish yeshiva in the context of this discussion).
Chasidish kids graduating from the typical chasidish high-school (satmer, bobov etc) would likely not be able to pass anything past elementary mathematics and their SAT score would be abysmal. It's a sad state of affairs.
NYT is of course the optimity of anti-semites but that's a separate discussion.

@Dan CMIIW but you studied on your own time for the SAT and your HS math probably didn't help all that much?

As mentioned before, if someone wants to take a course in english and math after high school when they want to join the work force they do well. I know this from many lubavitchers that had 0 english/math/science past maybe 3rd grade and did incredibly well when they self taught or took courses.

Of course the Chassidim won't take those courses when they are ready to join the workforce because they aren't going to college and they aren't becoming doctors or lawyers, but that is irrelevant to their education choices as a child and stems from their belief system.

[WAM]

(many lubvitch yeshivas don't count as chassidish yeshiva in the context of this discussion).

NYT pooled the funds of all yeshivas in NY into one giant number. That means all yeshivas are Chassidish yeshivas "in the context of this discussion."

[jj1000]

Secular studies are 100% relevant to the legislation.
So, the only thing we disagree to is if they should be required by the state/gov? 

That's tough to say.

On a personal level we probably agree, when it comes to what should be legally required of others, we may disagree.

[Dan]

Ok, Dan let's be real I'm going to assume you probably didn't go to a chasidish yeshiva (many lubvitch yeshivas don't count as chassidish yeshiva in the context of this discussion).
Chasidish kids graduating from the typical chasidish high-school (satmer, bobov etc) would likely not be able to pass anything past elementary mathematics and their SAT score would most likely be abysmal. It's a sad state of affairs.
NYT is of course the optimity of anti-semites but that's a separate discussion.

Sure, but that was my choice and my parents choice.

The mainstream lubavitch school in NYC has no secular studies at all, from elementary through high school. And most lubavitch high schools have no secular studies either. And yet, most graduates are highly successful and can become well educated in a short period of time should they so desire.

[CountValentine]

He said “Personal beliefs on secular education”.

Yes and I didn't.

[CountValentine]

That's tough to say.

On a personal level we probably agree, when it comes to what should be legally required of others, we may disagree.

I would say legally it passes the mustard test as many states have it for a long time.