Author Topic: NY Times vs. Chassidim  (Read 127547 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1140 on: September 19, 2022, 09:40:31 AM »
So maybe cut him a little slack, 'cause he ain't exaggerating this time
He didn't make a general statement, he quoted me.

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Offline imayid2

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1141 on: September 19, 2022, 09:43:24 AM »
He didn't make a general statement, he quoted me.
He did not mean you.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1142 on: September 19, 2022, 09:46:14 AM »
He didn't make a general statement, he quoted me.

I'm prettttty sure he doesn't consider you an antisemite, though have you ever taken the last cookie when he was next in line at the bakery?

Offline moko

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1143 on: September 19, 2022, 09:48:29 AM »
There is no counter argument. They are all a bunch on antisemites. Just ask @S209
what happened to
Then you work to change them legally.
when they actually do that
I can see that as a major problem and a source of resentment.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1144 on: September 19, 2022, 09:56:35 AM »
what happened to when they actually do that
What's your point? They took them to court.
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Offline imayid2

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Offline moko

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1146 on: September 19, 2022, 10:03:42 AM »
What's your point? They took them to court.
the point? That going the legal route doesn't solve any of the inherent issues. Just avoids breaking the law.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1147 on: September 19, 2022, 10:14:54 AM »
the point? That going the legal route doesn't solve any of the inherent issues. Just avoids breaking the law.
It seems you can't talk about inherent issue without being labeled an antisemite.
How about when parents of private school children take over a school board and cut funding and taxes? Would that be an inherent issue?
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Offline moko

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1148 on: September 19, 2022, 10:16:57 AM »
It seems you can't talk about inherent issue without being labeled an antisemite.
How about when parents of private school children take over a school board and cut funding and taxes? Would that be an inherent issue?
if you don't like it, change it legally

Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1149 on: September 19, 2022, 10:20:21 AM »
if you don't like it, change it legally
You just said that doesn't work for inherent issues. 
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Offline S209

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1150 on: September 19, 2022, 11:17:54 AM »
He didn't make a general statement, he quoted me.
I wasn’t trying to insinuate that you’re an anti-Semite, but that is very obviously one of the causes of the “resentment” in Ramapo. Apologies if it came across that way.

I was saying that the generalization of private school parents being on school boards isn’t necessarily considered a “source of resentment” except when they are Orthodox Jews. IIRC there was some pushback a bit ago when school boards were a hot political topic and there were a few times that angry parents came and called out board members who either didn’t have children or send their kids to private. It doesn’t appear to be a rare phenomenon, and it’s not usually a source of resentment (except as a political gotcha). The reason it’s a “major problem” over here is because all of the private school parents on the board are “others” look the same and send their children to similar schools which triggers an overtly anti-Semitic reaction.

You don’t hear much about the major problems a Catholic parent on the school board causes.
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Offline moko

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1151 on: September 19, 2022, 11:20:23 AM »
You just said that doesn't work for inherent issues.
that's my opinion. youve been pushing that

Offline S209

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1152 on: September 19, 2022, 11:24:45 AM »
Can a female politician elected legally make laws for male constituents? Can a childless person be on a school board or pass laws for children as a politician? Can a religious Supreme Court Justice rule on laws for irreligious people?

It’s been your opinion all along that what matters is the law. Why do you think this is considered a major problem, then? It’s all legal. It’s also important to remember that Chasidim are individuals, not a monolith.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1153 on: September 19, 2022, 11:31:47 AM »
I was saying that the generalization of private school parents being on school boards isn’t necessarily considered a “source of resentment” except when they are Orthodox Jews.
I disagree 100%. I also side with the public-school parents on this one. You can be Jewish, Catholic, Christian or any other group. There will be resentment that leads to hate. That is just reality.
You don’t hear much about the major problems a Catholic parent on the school board causes.
Been there done that. The issue is not the person but the agenda of the person.
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Offline sguitarist18

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1154 on: September 19, 2022, 12:17:09 PM »
The issue starts from the other direction - when there's an increasing percentage of private school families in a region that are being taxed without seeing any benefit, while the public schools continue to receive the same amount of funding despite having smaller student bodies, the private school families get involved in the local school funding.

Goes back to "taxation without representation."

Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1155 on: September 19, 2022, 02:04:14 PM »
Goes back to "taxation without representation."
You mean like parents with no kids in school?
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Offline yelped

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1156 on: September 19, 2022, 02:04:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1571508344883499008

This is how members of the NYT editorial board are promoting their op-ed on the subject, which serves as a sort of companion piece to the report.
Wow, a total Shma Garam, what a bitter soul.

Offline S209

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1157 on: September 19, 2022, 02:06:38 PM »
You mean like parents with no kids in school?
What tax do parents in school need to pay that other parents don’t? Taxes and voting in the US have always been considered to be mutually inclusive. You don’t get one without the other.
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Offline S209

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1158 on: September 19, 2022, 02:22:52 PM »
2001 article: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2001-02-19-0102190172-story.html

"I know board members who have no children at all and they are fantastic board members ... " said Carl W. Smith, executive director of the Maryland Association of Boards of Education. "The litmus test for board members is in the quality of the individual and what they bring to the job."

No rule states that a school board member with children must enroll them in the district he or she serves, said Michael E. Morrill, spokesman for Gov. Parris N. Glendening, who appoints board members in 11 of the state's 24 school districts. Members are elected in the remaining districts.

"I have been fully committed to public education," said Arnold, who was appointed to the Baltimore County school board in 1996. This is his second year as board president. His three older children attended public schools.

Arnold said he decided to place two of his three younger children at the School of the Cathedral of Mary Our Queen in Baltimore because of religious beliefs. A third child is too young to attend school.

Some parents in Baltimore County view Arnold's decision to enroll his children in a private school as a slap in the face. He lives near Pine Grove Elementary School, which ranked 34th out of 102 county elementary schools on the 2000 Maryland School Performance Assessment Program.

"As a public school parent, you would hope the people who represent you have children in the same system," said Laura Nossel, PTA Council of Baltimore County president. "I would like teachers and administrators to have their kids in the system, too." By choosing private schools, she said, educators are sending "a bad message about our school system."

Baltimore school board member Jones said that at the time of his appointment last year, he enrolled his two children - one of whom now attends college - in private schools because he and his wife thought they would "get a significantly better education in the private school system than they would in the public school system."



The opponents of those who chose private had no problem with the agendas of those members, they only felt that the members should have supported the public schools by sending to them. No resentment of their appointment or complaints of agendas.

What do you think locals consider an “agenda”? Is taking into account the (legal) bussing needs of the private schools in your jurisdiction an “agenda”? Nefarious indeed.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: NY Times: "In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush with Public Money"
« Reply #1159 on: September 19, 2022, 03:07:14 PM »
What do you think locals consider an “agenda”? Is taking into account the (legal) bussing needs of the private schools in your jurisdiction an “agenda”? Nefarious indeed.
Let's look at some hypothetical situations.
1 - Catholic parents take over a local school board. They provide busing for their kids while cutting funding and taxes overall. Nefarious?
2 - Catholic parents take over a local school board. They close a public school for lack of funding (that they cut) and then sell it to other Catholics at below market value. Nefarious?
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