NY Times vs. Chassidim

[EliJelly]

TYH we have been spared

[imayid2]

[TimT]

I don't "know" if the staff at NYT are antisemites, or If they have an antisemitic agenda,

They hate religious Jews & everything about us. Call it what you like. They’re beyond obsessed.

[Alexsei]

They hate religious Jews & everything about us. Call it what you like. They’re beyond obsessed.

Aren't many of them Jews themselves?

[TimT]

Aren't many of them Jews themselves?

Not religious. Self-hating

[Alexsei]

Not religious. Self-hating

Not religious. Self-hating ≠ antisemites

[Yehuda57]

For the record, the person I was speaking about in this article:

Note, I didn't use the word antisemitism, but I'll ask the same question here as I asked in a different story:

apologized, came to my home for a Shabbos meal, came to family weddings, we have maintained an open line of communication, and I helped fact-check a later episode he did that involved the Chassidic community.

[TimT]

Not religious. Self-hating ≠ antisemites

Someone who hates people who practice Judaism=antisemite

[biobook]

This is what actually happened:

These reporters set out to investigate claims made by Yaffed and then used those very same Yaffed leaders and supporters' anecdotes to prove the point while granting anonymity so the reader wouldn't see the scam

I have no doubt that Yaffed's claims were an important stimulus for the investigation, but there was also the first part of the millions-dollar yeshiva fraud, which was disclosed in 2018.  That yeshiva was a prominent part of the NYT articles.

[biobook]

Refreshers are treif!!!!
Did the money go to individuals? Or was it redirected to other budgets of the educational institutions?

I think most of it was directed to other yeshiva budgets, rather than to themselves, which would explain why the senior administrator was sentenced to only 2 years in jail.

Some of it did go to individuals, indirectly.  That is, they paid part of the salary for themselves and teachers off the books, such that their official salary was quite low.  This artificially deflated salary was then used as their basis for underpaying their income tax and for claiming eligibility for welfare benefits, such as food stamps and child care.   

(The documents use the term "teachers", so we can't tell if the ones involved in this fraud were rebbeim, or just the yeshiva's non-Jewish teachers of secular studies.)

[biobook]

Look upthread, been discussed on pages. Only being rehashed again because it's the time of the year we clap Al Cheit.

Yes, that's my point.  I would expect to see a big Al Cheit coming from yeshivas, and from organizations that support them. Do you see anything like that happening?  All I know if what I read on DDF, and I haven't seen any admission that there are problems in the yeshivas, just anger at the media that exposed the problems.

[biobook]

For the record, the person I was speaking about in this article:
apologized, came to my home for a Shabbos meal, came to family weddings, we have maintained an open line of communication, and I helped fact-check a later episode he did that involved the Chassidic community.

Your Ira Glass Number is 1?  I'm impressed!

[Yehuda57]

Your Ira Glass Number is 1?  I'm impressed!

To paraphrase Victor Borge, if you think that is impressive, why don't you come by later and watch me tie my shoes

[EliJelly]

Yes, that's my point.  I would expect to see a big Al Cheit coming from yeshivas, and from organizations that support them. Do you see anything like that happening?  All I know if what I read on DDF, and I haven't seen any admission that there are problems in the yeshivas, just anger at the media that exposed the problems.

Al cheit on the cheit of not clapping al cheit

[biobook]

There have been numerous articles and letters that have pointed to egregious errors, the Times going against its own policy of when sources are granted anonymity, and a slew of examples of biased and dishonest framing. Yet not a single correction has been issued on a single one of their many stories in the series. They haven't even responded to any critiques to defend or explain their reporting.

How does that compare with their response to errors found in other stories? 
How often do they respond to critiques of their reporting?

Note, I didn't use the word antisemitism...

I was focused on the Agudah's "year in review". 
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=130619.msg2746907#msg2746907

We had a year in which one yeshiva admitted to fraud and was required to pay 8 million dollars.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/24/nyregion/hasidic-yeshiva-fraud-central-united-talmudical-academy.html

We had a year in which 18 yeshivas were found to provide inadequate education in English and math.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/30/nyregion/nyc-hasidic-yeshivas-education.html

We had a year in which the Agudah and others sued NYSED's ruling with 9 points, 8-and-a-half of which were struck out by the judge because they were, in effect, either untrue, exaggerated, showed lack of careful reading of a text, or lack of logical thinking. 

And so one would expect the Agudah's "year in review" would focus on how we can improve our yeshivas, ensure that all our yeshiva employees behave ethically, create appropriate teaching materials, encourage critical thinking...

Nope!  They've learned only that the NYT is antisemitic, and we should raise funds to fight the media. 

[Yehuda57]

I have no doubt that Yaffed's claims were an important stimulus for the investigation, but there was also the first part of the millions-dollar yeshiva fraud, which was disclosed in 2018.  That yeshiva was a prominent part of the NYT articles.

The fraud was one article out of a long series, and it was from a small fraction of the yeshivas that the series was about.

The reporters have spoken of their connection with Yaffed for years, long before this series was published

[biobook]

I don't "know" if the staff at NYT are antisemites, or If they have an antisemitic agenda,

Forget the NYT for a moment.  Can you come up with a list of criteria that would lead you to conclude that any media organization is antisemitic?  Does voicing criticism of Jewish organizations necessarily reflect antisemitism?

[Alexsei]

Forget the NYT for a moment.  Can you come up with a list of criteria that would lead you to conclude that any media organization is antisemitic?  Does voicing criticism of Jewish organizations necessarily reflect antisemitism?

Dedicated to that ? Or as part of criticizing other minorities?

[biobook]

The fraud was one article out of a long series, and it was from a small fraction of the yeshivas that the series was about.

The reporters have spoken of their connection with Yaffed for years, long before this series was published

Fine, not disagreeing.  My point is only that this wasn't some random "Let's go look for hateful things to say about Orthodox Jews."  It originated - as all investigative journalism does - from a sign that there may be something undesirable happening, and an attempt to investigate it more thoroughly.

[Yehuda57]

Fine, not disagreeing.  My point is only that this wasn't some random "Let's go look for hateful things to say about Orthodox Jews."  It originated - as all investigative journalism does - from a sign that there may be something undesirable happening, and an attempt to investigate it more thoroughly.

No it didn't. It originated from a lobbying group that *told them* something undesirable is happening. That lobbying group has a history of making blatantly antisemitic statements, and they claim to be representative of a community which has loudly and broadly disassociated themselves from them.

Then, like through a combination of "soft" bigotry and confirmation bias, badly misreported the story.