Author Topic: Are there any lessons for next time?  (Read 11009 times)

Online aygart

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2022, 10:30:59 AM »
Remember, thousands of people got covid and they were trying to keep things locked up - reality was nobody was getting covid again and people wanted an end to all the restrictions if they had covid/immunity - the government had to keep the restrictions in place and the only way to do that was to outright deny immunity by saying we just don't know if you develop immunity... It was only months later that they changed their tune to immunity may wear off 3 months than 6 months than not for developing strains..
That is not the question that was asked
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2022, 10:38:04 AM »
Which words of "don't know", unlikely, or "major role" don't you understand?
They are trying to answer why we can't attribute immunity to having any cause in the decrease because they do not want to believe in immunity at all. Maybe it's a mistake to bold words when you don't look at the full  conversation...I bolded words so you should see how they completely disregard immunity when they say we don't know, this wouldn't play a major role he said it to tell you that is not something to look at


Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2022, 10:47:49 AM »
The middle one there is ridiculous since the concerns they were saying the whole time about how they don't know how much immunity will help have played out exactly how they were concerned they would. We see people getting it for a second and third time all over the place.
Start again?  The government had a goal of denying immunity first we don't know than they decided only 3 months than 6 months shot was always works better there was a goal of not recognizing immunity - which other countries were honest about and did look at such as Israel..

Online aygart

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2022, 11:05:10 AM »
They are trying to answer why we can't attribute immunity to having any cause in the decrease because they do not want to believe in immunity at all. Maybe it's a mistake to bold words when you don't look at the full  conversation...I bolded words so you should see how they completely disregard immunity when they say we don't know, this wouldn't play a major role he said it to tell you that is not something to look at



They are saying it is not something to base policy on. It is simply a lie to say they made a claim that it did not contribute. They said the total opposite.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2022, 11:08:04 AM »
Start again?  The government had a goal of denying immunity first we don't know than they decided only 3 months than 6 months shot was always works better there was a goal of not recognizing immunity - which other countries were honest about and did look at such as Israel..

Now you are trying to claim they said one thing but meant something else? I can't help with the voices in your head. How about you find someone who actually said what you claim.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2022, 12:37:14 PM »
Lesson 1: Politics played a major part in what one believed and not science.
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Offline WAM

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2022, 10:41:18 AM »
Lesson 1: Politics played a major part in what one believed and not science.
Agreed. It also played a part in when to believe that science was science.

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2022, 10:46:07 AM »
Agreed. It also played a part in when to believe that science was science.
Preconceived notions affect people's views on everything
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2022, 05:20:32 PM »
Lesson 1: Politics played a major part in what everyone, including scientists believed and not science.

FTFY
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Offline WAM

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2022, 05:38:03 PM »
I think some scientists believed the truth and said something else.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2022, 05:53:53 PM »
I think some scientists believed the truth and said something else.

That could be true but we can only evaluate them based on what they said.
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Offline yungermanchik

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2022, 07:24:06 PM »
Lesson 1: Politics played a major part in what one believed and not science.
Lesson #0: If *everyone* would have just done it *my* way, we would all be much better off.
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2022, 04:03:27 AM »
Did anyone read Live Free or Die by John Ringo?
https://smile.amazon.com/Live-Free-Troy-Rising-Book/dp/1439133328

I read this some time ago (was published early 2010), and one of the things that struck me was his description of humanity's reaction to a pandemic.
The disease first manifested as a pimple on the wrist, and so it stayed for about two weeks. After that, the person dies horribly. Turns out the pimple had a parasite which gestated for that time, then quickly spread. But - you could pop the pimple and disinfect, and nothing would happen.
So he describes how disinfectant disappears from the shelves, and how scalpers were charging ridiculous amounts for it, and how scientists and doctors tried to get the message out that soap and water was fine too. And how a third or so of humanity dies anyway out of distrust for what the government was saying.

Fast forward to the end (not sure, but I think the whole trilogy), and it turns out that an alien force had bioengineered the diseases specifically for humans. When asked why they made it so avoidable (all you needed was proper hygiene), they responded that they intended to enslave humanity, but wanted to weed out the dumb ones first.

The parallels to COVID are uncanny. (Hopefully no aliens this time.)
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline WAM

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2022, 10:57:41 AM »
Did anyone read Live Free or Die by John Ringo?
https://smile.amazon.com/Live-Free-Troy-Rising-Book/dp/1439133328

I read this some time ago (was published early 2010), and one of the things that struck me was his description of humanity's reaction to a pandemic.
The disease first manifested as a pimple on the wrist, and so it stayed for about two weeks. After that, the person dies horribly. Turns out the pimple had a parasite which gestated for that time, then quickly spread. But - you could pop the pimple and disinfect, and nothing would happen.
So he describes how disinfectant disappears from the shelves, and how scalpers were charging ridiculous amounts for it, and how scientists and doctors tried to get the message out that soap and water was fine too. And how a third or so of humanity dies anyway out of distrust for what the government was saying.

Fast forward to the end (not sure, but I think the whole trilogy), and it turns out that an alien force had bioengineered the diseases specifically for humans. When asked why they made it so avoidable (all you needed was proper hygiene), they responded that they intended to enslave humanity, but wanted to weed out the dumb ones first.

The parallels to COVID are uncanny. (Hopefully no aliens this time.)
Did the government in this story also keep flip flopping on their soap and water position? Were doctors that had opinions not in line with the government cancelled and stripped of their licenses?

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2022, 11:03:45 AM »
Did the government in this story also keep flip flopping on their soap and water position? Were doctors that had opinions not in line with the government cancelled and stripped of their licenses?
Heh. My memory doesn't go back that far in such detail. But I wouldn't be surprised regarding the first one. The second seems less likely.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline WAM

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #75 on: December 27, 2022, 01:35:09 PM »
Heh. My memory doesn't go back that far in such detail. But I wouldn't be surprised regarding the first one. The second seems less likely.
Conspiracy theory:
Harav hagoen rabbi dr fauci shlita wrote the book and then tested his theory with the world as his sandbox.

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2022, 04:45:24 AM »
Did the government in this story also keep flip flopping on their soap and water position? Were doctors that had opinions not in line with the government cancelled and stripped of their licenses?
Reread the chapter yesterday. Their FDA did communicate a universal message that no one argued with.
Some people were just too outdated to get their messaging, such as third-worlders. A sizable group of conspiracy theorists said the government was hoarding the better medicines for themselves, forcing people to use the more painful options for getting out the parasite. And then... hordes of people died.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2023, 07:17:24 AM »
New Cleveland Clinic study of 51,011 healthcare workers: graph depicting “cumulative incidence of Covid-19 infection for subjects stratified by
the number of Covid-19 vaccine doses previously received"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v
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Re: Are there any lessons for next time?
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2023, 08:05:20 AM »
New Cleveland Clinic study of 51,011 healthcare workers: graph depicting “cumulative incidence of Covid-19 infection for subjects stratified by
the number of Covid-19 vaccine doses previously received"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v


Not sure what this is supposed to prove. Younger, lower risk people were much more likely to have received 0-2 doses, and older and higher risk people were much more likely to have have gotten 3 or more doses.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.