Author Topic: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"  (Read 12147 times)

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #140 on: September 29, 2022, 11:57:17 PM »
As the chazon ish was reported to have said when told they were saying in his name that there was a heter for cholov stam ďnext they will say I was matir an eishes ishĒ
Listen, one version fits perfectly with what he wrote, and is widely quoted (Rav yaakov, Rav henkin, and the steipler quoted it) and one is completely at odds with what he writes. Thatís why the former is more accepted.

Offline jye

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Offline EliJelly

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #142 on: September 30, 2022, 12:13:43 AM »
Also a very nice comprehensive chapter in this book.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=125329.msg2462007#msg2462007

Eta, after reading more it's actually a fantastic compilation on CY. Thanks @YitzyS for recommending it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 02:01:05 AM by EliJelly »

Offline yungermanchik

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #143 on: September 30, 2022, 01:10:33 PM »
Back to the original topic:
For example, Rav Moshe Tendler once stated (in a Shiur at Yeshiva University in 1986) that even one who practices the lenient approach to the Chalav Yisrael issue should drink only Chalav Yisrael during the Aseret Yemei Teshuva.

I asked מו"ר הרב ראובן שליט"א today "Is there any inyan to be makpid on C"Y during Aseres Yimei Teshuva?" and He responded with an unequivocal "No"
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline JMHO

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #144 on: September 30, 2022, 01:29:07 PM »
Also a very nice comprehensive chapter in this book.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=125329.msg2462007#msg2462007

Eta, after reading more it's actually a fantastic compilation on CY. Thanks @YitzyS for recommending it.
Ordered. Thanks

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2022, 01:33:50 PM »
Also a very nice comprehensive chapter in this book.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=125329.msg2462007#msg2462007

Eta, after reading more it's actually a fantastic compilation on CY. Thanks @YitzyS for recommending it.
I do not have it, perhaps Iíll purchase it. Meanwhile, are any big names among litvesha Gedolim recorded there as having objected to Rav Moshes reasoning? Iím not asking לקנטר, Iím truly curious.

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #146 on: September 30, 2022, 01:43:44 PM »
I do not have it, perhaps Iíll purchase it.
done

Offline zh cohen

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #147 on: September 30, 2022, 02:12:16 PM »
There was a sefer just published which absolutely proved that itís a ספק דרבנן לקולא
I don't know the sugya well, but when the OU came out with their psak being matir the chashash of חלב טריפה it was not universally accepted.

Is the author a posek on the level of R' Moshe? I think people should know if they are relying on R' Moshe's psak, or on an application of it to new circumstances by someone of lesser stature.

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #148 on: September 30, 2022, 02:17:52 PM »
I don't know the sugya well, but when the OU came out with their psak being matir the chashash of חלב טריפה it was not universally accepted.
Thatís a separate discussion. Weíve been talking under the assumption that the cows are triefas.
Is the author a posek on the level of R' Moshe? I think people should know if they are relying on R' Moshe's psak, or on an application of it to new circumstances by someone of lesser stature.
Facts donít care about how great you are. Thatís what he did, established much needed facts.

Offline aygart

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #149 on: September 30, 2022, 02:18:32 PM »
I don't know the sugya well, but when the OU came out with their psak being matir the chashash of חלב טריפה it was not universally accepted.

Is the author a posek on the level of R' Moshe? I think people should know if they are relying on R' Moshe's psak, or on an application of it to new circumstances by someone of lesser stature.

Who disagreed with the matirim? When was the last time anyone being lenient regarding a tumult was universally accepted?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #150 on: September 30, 2022, 02:22:20 PM »
Who disagreed with the matirim?
The matirims heterim for the treifos issue are weak. This is the subject of the first half of the sefer.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #151 on: September 30, 2022, 03:10:11 PM »
I do not have it, perhaps Iíll purchase it. Meanwhile, are any big names among litvesha Gedolim recorded there as having objected to Rav Moshes reasoning? Iím not asking לקנטר, Iím truly curious.

Reb Eliezer Silver and Reb Moshe Sternbuch as well as the famous cholkim who weren't chassidish either, like Reb Yonoson Shteif, the Chelkas Yaakov among others. Reb Moshe was unquestionably the Posek hador for the American Litvisha world, but how wonder how his heter was perceived by the Israeli Litvisha Gedolim and poskim, like Reb Shlomo Zalmen, Rav Elyashiv etc.

Offline AsherO

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2022, 08:14:14 PM »
Many?
Regardless, the other reason could just as well apply to many/most cases of DE.

So now weíre talking about DE? You keep moving the goalposts.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2022, 08:17:35 PM »
So now weíre talking about DE? You keep moving the goalposts.
We were talking about it since I said this:
I think itís very relevant at least for keilim which they seem completely fine with.
And we had a conversation about that. So Iím not sure why Iím being accused of suddenly moving goal posts.

Offline AsherO

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2022, 08:20:14 PM »
We were talking about it since I said this:And we had a conversation about that. So Iím not sure why Iím being accused of suddenly moving goal posts.

That was precisely when the goalposts started slipping. Iím still talking about CY/CS and still donít see how that other piece from Prague is relevant when itís answering a completely different discussion.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2022, 08:23:36 PM »
That was precisely when the goalposts started slipping. Iím still talking about CY/CS and still donít see how that other piece from Prague is relevant when itís answering a completely different discussion.
Itís not a completely different discussion. I donít even understand how you can think that. If CS milk isnít kosher at all, it treifs the keilim. There are many poskim that will say Rav Mosheís heter is not even good enough for keilim. So Iím pointing out that IMO it seems that they considered it back then a very solid standalone reason to be matir at least keilim.

Offline AsherO

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2022, 08:25:48 PM »
Itís not a completely different discussion. There are many poskim that will say Rav Mosheís heter is not even good enough for keilim. So Iím pointing out that IMO it seems that they considered it back then a very solid standalone reason to be matir at least keilim.

Itís not standalone when there are multiple other reasons there, not all of which are applicable (such as that נילוש might be considered בלוע).
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Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2022, 08:28:33 PM »
Itís not standalone when there are multiple other reasons there, not all of which are applicable (such as that נילוש might not be considered לח).
Iím only seeing one other reason there, which is that חלב isnít שמן so it wouldnít effect the keilim. This  also needs the prerequisite of being בלוע as you mentioned.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 08:32:22 PM by imayid2 »

Offline imayid2

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #158 on: October 01, 2022, 08:38:39 PM »
Iím only seeing one other reason there, which is that חלב isnít שמן so it wouldnít effect the keilim. This  also needs the prerequisite of being בלוע as you mentioned.
And I do not understand why you say it wouldnít be applicable. In factories where the DE designation is due to previous runs containing חלב בלוע in another product, it is just as applicable as it was in 1758.

Offline AsherO

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Re: "Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"
« Reply #159 on: October 01, 2022, 08:43:16 PM »
And I do not understand why you say it wouldnít be applicable. In factories where the DE designation is due to previous runs containing חלב בלוע in another product, it is just as applicable as it was in 1758.

So now youíre saying itís only relevant to discussion about some DE products? Or again you want to extrapolate from a very distinct case with multiple mitigating factors into a general rule?
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