"Makpid During Aseres Yimei Teshuva"

[Dan]

The fact is that Rav Moshes heter is extremely compelling logically

Ah yes, the one thing that we rely on the government to do well, as opposed to everything else that we wouldn't trust them for beans.
Never mind that the government itself says they're not looking for that.

[EliJelly]

The fact is that Rav Moshes heter is extremely compelling logically, was shared by many Giants of Halacha, and when augmented by the פרי חדש ודעימי׳ should be rightfully recognized as the עיקר הדין. Obviously chassidesha poskim view this as sacrilegious, they come from a totally different world view.

You can try turning this into a chassidisha inyan as much as you want, clearly you didn't take the effort to look what the major poskim write on the פרי חדש, like the תשובה מאהבה who writes that בטלה דעת הפר׳׳ח נגד כל הפוסקים, as well as the Aruch H'shilchan I quoted above. Saying that the פרי חדש is the עיקר הדין is simply ignorant.

[imayid2]

You can try turning this into a chassidisha inyan as much as you want, clearly you didn't take the effort to look what the major poskim write on the פרי חדש, like the תשובה מאהבה who writes that בטלה דעת הפר׳׳ח נגד כל הפוסקים, as well as the Aruch H'shilchan I quoted above. Saying that the פרי חדש is the עיקר הדין is simply ignorant.

I didn’t say that. I say RMFs heter augmented by the פרי חדש.

[S209]

Come on, it's well above our pay grade to measure their gadlus. The question isn't if there is capable matirim, the discussion started if this is considered a chumra like PP or a real machlokas meiker hadin, and what the leading opinion amongst the the major poskim was.

Also, the Chaz"I never wrote that בתורת פסק.

As I wrote above, the Steipler writes that the Chazon Ish was matir CS during the war.

[EliJelly]

I didn’t say that. I say RMFs heter augmented by the פרי חדש.

Neither is

[S209]

Ah yes, the one thing that we rely on the government to do well, as opposed to everything else that we wouldn't trust them for beans.
Never mind that the government itself says they're not looking for that.

As a parent of children with life threatening allergies I have no problem relying on FDA certified allergen warning. Why would that be different?

[imayid2]

Ah yes, the one thing that we rely on the government to do well, as opposed to everything else that we wouldn't trust them for beans.
Never mind that the government itself says they're not looking for that.

I’m not intimately familiar with the protocols, but from those who are I’m told that their testings would absolutely pick up foreign milk, and that they is a very strong מירתת from it. And they assert that RMFs heter is as applicable today as it ever was if not more.

[Ver hut gazugt]

As a parent of children with life threatening allergies I have no problem relying on FDA certified allergen warning. Why would that be different?

one you can sue for trillions….

[imayid2]

Neither is

But to your consternation you will not be able to back this up with any achronim.

[EliJelly]

As a parent of children with life threatening allergies I have no problem relying on FDA certified allergen warning. Why would that be different?

Is there a FDA warning for that as well? The government is stricter on allergies and the results of lying emerges immediately.

[Ver hut gazugt]

I’m not intimately familiar with the protocols, but from those who are I’m told that their testings would absolutely pick up foreign milk, and that they is a very strong מירתת from it. And they assert that RMFs heter is as applicable today as it ever was if not more.

what about the problem of triefus?

[S209]

You can try turning this into a chassidisha inyan as much as you want, clearly you didn't take the effort to look what the major poskim write on the פרי חדש, like the תשובה מאהבה who writes that בטלה דעת הפר׳׳ח נגד כל הפוסקים, as well as the Aruch H'shilchan I quoted above. Saying that the פרי חדש is the עיקר הדין is simply ignorant.

Plenty of Poskim disagree. And the ones that do all claim to be supported by their reading of the Mordechai, Rabbeinu Peretz, Rambam, etc. It’s very hard to say “most Poskim” in a hotly debated issue such as this, there are most definitely many people to rely on.

[Yehuda57]

Ah yes, the one thing that we rely on the government to do well, as opposed to everything else that we wouldn't trust them for beans.
Never mind that the government itself says they're not looking for that.

I'm not as well versed on the subject halachically, but there are multiple first hand accounts of dairy farmers saying they use other milks to increase fat counts and other reasons.

Plus, in this thread it is a given that the RMF heter is only in the USA, but the facts on the ground are very different. The heter is used in many other places, places where there is no first world government health inspection system.

[imayid2]

what about the problem of triefus?

There was a sefer just published which absolutely proved that it’s a ספק דרבנן לקולא

[imayid2]

Plus, in this thread it is a given that the RMF heter is only in the USA, but the facts on the ground are very different. The heter is used in many other places, places where there is no first world government health inspection system.

We can agree that is a misapplication of the heter.

[imayid2]

There was a sefer just published which absolutely proved that it’s a ספק דרבנן לקולא

https://seforimchatter.com/2022/01/02/with-r-manes-blumenfrucht-discussing-the-kosher-milk-controversy-of-america-and-his-new-sefer-chalav-treifah/

[EliJelly]

But to your consternation you will not be able to back this up with any achronim.

Just open a נחלת בנימין על סי׳ קטו, a דרכי תשובה or even today's sifrei likutim and see for yourself.

Plenty of Poskim disagree. And the ones that do all claim to be supported by their reading of the Mordechai, Rabbeinu Peretz, Rambam, etc. It’s very hard to say “most Poskim” in a hotly debated issue such as this, there are most definitely many people to rely on.

Again, it's a regular machlokas h'poskim to say the least. Not a chumra.

The question isn't if there are capable matirim, the discussion started if this is considered a chumra like PP or a real machlokas meiker hadin, and what the leading opinion amongst the the major poskim was.

[Ver hut gazugt]

There was a sefer just published which absolutely proved that it’s a ספק דרבנן לקולא

is it considered a sofak if you can find out the number ? Albeit with a lot of effort.

[S209]

I’m not intimately familiar with the protocols, but from those who are I’m told that their testings would absolutely pick up foreign milk, and that they is a very strong מירתת from it. And they assert that RMFs heter is as applicable today as it ever was if not more.

I’ve heard the tests are extremely sensitive.

one you can sue for trillions….

I was responding to the assertion that we don’t rely on government inspections and regulations, it’s totally untrue. Everybody relies on them. Furthermore if my child was allergic to camel’s milk I’d be suing just the same.

what about the problem of triefus?

Whole different issue, according to the Sefer “Cholov Treifa” by R’ Blumenfrucht there is no issue.

Is there a FDA warning for that as well? The government is stricter on allergies and the results of lying emerges immediately.

See above. It’s totally illegal.

I'm not as well versed on the subject halachically, but there are multiple first hand accounts of dairy farmers saying they use other milks to increase fat counts and other reasons.

Plus, in this thread it is a given that the RMF heter is only in the USA, but the facts on the ground are very different. The heter is used in many other places, places where there is no first world government health inspection system.

I highly doubt a dairy farmer in the US has admitted on the record to illegally mixing in other milk when it is illegal to label anything but 100% pure milk as such in the US. This sounds like hearsay and not a mi’ut hamatzui.

RMF gave his heter in the US but the Chazon Ish gave a very similar line of reasoning in EY and the Pri Chodosh said his psak in Amsterdam. Not all require the government- some of the reasons given (when applicable) are if nonkosher animals aren’t milked in that location, if there is even a bit of supervision, cameras, if nonkosher milk is more expensive, etc.

[imayid2]

Rabbi Blumenfrucht told me that his next project is to explain why Rav Moshes heter is relevant now more than ever.